Being treated like a 'bimbo'

[humbugbah]

I promise this isn't a stealth boast, but I'm 45 and seemingly look quite a bit younger due to a combination of features and genetics. That is to say, big blue eyes, chubby cheeks, blonde hair, button nose, curvy figure, very feminine voice. I'm not saying I look great, just a lot younger. I look very 'girly' even though my character isn't. I find that I'm constantly undermined in the workplace, get treated like I'm a wet behind the ears new starter and constantly have to prove myself. Partly the reason for this is that, due to the nature of my work, I'm with new colleagues almost every week, so it's only once I've spent some time working with them and proved myself that I get given any benefit of the doubt. I'm experienced and capable, I feel more so than a lot of other people I work with who don't have to deal with this battle to be taken seriously. I try to dress conservatively at work, but I was hoping others might be able to share some other advice as to how I can come across better. I'm too old and grumpy for this.

I have always looked a lot younger, and it has been the bane of my life. It only improved for me once I reached late 50s, although people still thought I was around 40, I had hit the age where I was taken more seriously.

Sorry to say, I don’t think there is any answer to this other than telling them your age when they treat you like that, and make them feel foolish.

It's that youngest token female thing of being expected to make the tea/coffee for a meeting that irritates me, so I have good lines in response prepared eg 'Definitely NOT my turn this week, Joe I'm sure you've not made the teas for at least a month, mines white no sugar' And my response to "can you just do me 5 copies of this" is 'Printer/copier is over there, it's auto feed print side up in the slot on top left hand button if you need 2 sided , I'm sure you can manage it, must dash I need the loo'

Thanks for the reply anyway, at least someone understands my pain. It's been the bane of my life too, a constant battle to be taken seriously. I actually wear glasses, but I struggle to find pairs that suit me, so I don't really like wearing them and opt for contacts. I might start wearing them all the time at work, but it's a shame that people are so sexist/ageist that I have to change my appearance to try to get taken seriously, and incredibly superficial. Yes, I think telling people my age is a good idea. I get comments of the kind 'when you're my age you'll know what it's like...' and 'tell me all about yourself sweetheart, how long have you been doing this...' I normally try to avoid telling them my actual age, a/ because it's personal information and my age shouldn't matter in the workplace if they were treating people fairly and b/ because then people look shocked, stare into my face looking for all the little signs of aging (which are there if you look closely enough!) and then call the others over to all gwap at me and say 'guess how old she is!' I become a living freak show when I just want to get on with my job! I know looking younger has it's perks as well, but I really fail to see any in a professional environment.

Absolutely, Ariela, the expectation that it's your natural role to do such things. After working with people for a while, I'll normally be complimented on my work, but it will always be as 'efficient' - so you know, following out tasks as a good little girl should. Not good at problem solving, managing situations well, ingenuity, all of which I believe I'm good at, but they'll concede that I am 'efficient'.

I'm porky and not a looker but I am short and until quite recently have always looked younger (round face, big eyes).

I find speaking up early to set the tone, normally nips this in the bud. Give a neutral and short answer, then turn the question round but into something work related and be professional but confident. E.g. if you get a patronising question about how long you've done the job, smile politely and reply "I've done this for a while now. For today's meeting do you know if X has prepared Y&Z so that we can agree a way forward for implementation?".

It makes it clear you are not up for silly sexist questions, and that you are capable and professional.

Thanks, User78. This sounds like a good tactic, I think I've probably done similar things in the past. I certainly try to keep work talk straight to the point and practical, at least with the tossers who behave like this. I remember the guy who was asking this, we were in an initial meeting, and I went on to ask him a few questions to clarify our procedures for the week, to keep everything practical and to show him I was on the ball. However, he then came back at me and said 'Don't worry.' I told him I wasn't worried, just wanting to sort out the week's procedure. He seemed to keep wanting to push me into the confused little girl box, whilst I was just trying to get on with my job. I think a lot of people (not just blokes) who behave like this feel resentful of someone younger being more efficient than them, so they have to put you down in some way if you're good at your job - you can't win! I refuse to play along and whimper at their side though, feigning girly helplessness just to make them feel better. I'm not competitive at all, I'm just too old to take this crap. Why don't people just go visit a psychologist or something instead of dumping all their issues on colleagues!

I know. It's bloody annoying. I've had the same "don't worry" bollocks.

My answer was that I'm not worried, but I need to know what the plan is, because of XYZ reporting etc. To make it clear I wasn't messing about, I also told him that if he wasn't feeling confident in being able to provide an update, then I would let my senior stakeholders know that there's an issue with giving a progress report, but that I would support to try and resolve the blocker, and did he want me to schedule a call to discuss his concerns so that I could provide guidance to him on how to address these challenges. He backed off quick smart.

Nicely played! I don't mind having a boss or colleague who isn't the most competent so long as they're a nice person and doing their best, I think I'm a fairly supportive colleague. I've got very little time for these tosspots who try to deflect from their own weaknesses by making other people (ie me) out to be inferior. Usually other people can see it, but not always, and I worry about the kind of Chinese whispers you get in any workplace, especially one where you're often only working with someone for a week at a time and then information about you gets passed on.

Oh dear - pain isn't it. You kind of want a "seriousness suit" that you could just chuck over your head at the start of the day - grey wig, thick specs, suit and Big Fuckoff Brooch (like Lady Hale), Duchess Of Something shoes.

That not having been made available on Alibaba yet, there's also the "little background speech" you can try giving when you're introduced to new people.

I have done that sometimes in customer teleconferences, as it was and is a very male dominated field and a short spiel about "My name is _, I've been an engineer for N decades, moved into this particular sector X years ago, and for Y years have been specialising in diagnosing the type of problem we are dealing with today" would head A LOT of quibbling off at the pass ! And yes I did sometimes deliberately wear my specs or Serious Jacket if I was going to be seen ;) People are very shallow, they can't help it. I was just as much good to them in jeans, hoodie and GonkHair ... but if they were talking to me, the poor buggers were already in the shit so why not make them happy, I thought. And it never hurt to terrify the younger guys a bit :D

You need to perfect a Paddington stare if anyone calls you "sweetheart" or similar.

You kind of want a "seriousness suit" that you could just chuck over your head at the start of the day - grey wig, thick specs, suit and Big Fuckoff Brooch (like Lady Hale), Duchess Of Something shoes.
😂Yes, although then you'd probably get written off as a past it old dragon, but at least you might get a bit of respect! I've always felt really disconnected by how people perceive me and who I actually am - not girly at all, dark sense of humour, dirty mind, somewhat cynical. I guess it's something most young women have to contend with, it's not so much I'm being objectified as just not given any credit whatsoever. Think I might experiment with the 'seriousness suit', could be fun creating a character.

Inspired.

Imagine yourself as one of the Dragons on Dragons' Den! 😂

You could have a lot of fun inventing a new persona, and introduce it to them when you come back after a week's holiday or something. They won't know what's hit them...

I hate that women use misogynistic terms like bimbo - ironic in your circumstances too.

I don't think I should have to explain this, as it's fairly obvious, but here goes...
In case you didn't notice, the term is in quotation marks. By doing this, I was trying to show that it's not a word I would personally use, but a concept that others have projected onto me throughout my life on account of being blonde, curvy and youthful in my appearance. I'm not being misogynistic (to myself?!), I would have thought that was fairly obvious if you'd read the thread. I guess some people just want to pick a fight. I have, however, had to hear such terms directed at me throughout my life, and heard them said about other, very competent female colleagues, one excellent supervisor being referred to as a 'typical blonde' - by another supervisor who was as better than him and with better social skills. Now jog on.

Yes, I’ve had this, I look a lot younger than my age and I’ve had all the same issues as you. Gets very tedious as people think I’m a bit arrogant for someone in their 20s apparently, I’m 41.

Op, ignore it, you hate the nail on the head that some people are slobbering for a fight on here.

Thanks, Friendlyplover. Yes, I know what you mean about people thinking you're arrogant, or at least they just seem shocked or surprised that I would say something sensible! I remember one irritating man who I was working with who would have a really patronising manner when I would start talking to him, both in his body language and the way he spoke slowly and lightly, as though he was speaking to a child and listening expecting utter nonsense to come out of my mouth. I used to enjoy watching the change in his expression as he'd have to snap out of it and address the work issue that I was coming to him with that he hadn't thought about yet. Prat.

It's really annoying. They just think I'm cute. I once walked into a board meeting and someone thought I was the tea lady. People always questioning my credibility. The only thing that counteracts it is sheer arrogance and entitlement. Just patronise them back.

declutteringmymind I get people assuming I'm admin/a secretary - which is fine except they then start asking me to do tasks for them that are not my job role or start sending me emails about such matters. Yes, I have 'cute' features too, and I've never wanted them. I try to mask it - not wearing 'girly' clothing, not talking about girly subject matter in work, which both work well for me as that's my personality anyway, but you can't hide what nature bestowed you with really. I admire women who can embrace femininity and youthfulness in the workplace and still command respect. I suppose if you're the boss then you can do this more than if you are at an equal level to your colleagues.

I’ve experienced this as well and I’ve predominantly worked in a mostly male environment. It amuses me now rather than annoys me. The best advice I can give when facing any ‘ism’ is to be excellent. Don’t clap back but rise above and keep to the job in hand. I have never hid my femininity, it’s a strength especially in a room full of men rutting like deer jostling for position. Don’t be afraid to be yourself, it’s their issue try not to make it yours by buying into their energy

Yes, although then you'd probably get written off as a past it old dragon

If this is how you refer to older women in your work place, then my sympathy for you is pretty limited.

Well, the good news is it's not! :) Read it again and try to understand the nuances of conversation a little better. Do you think I'm suggesting that it's a good thing or a bad thing to be 'written off as a past it old dragon'? Maybe, just maybe, considering the feminist tone of this thread, I'm suggesting that this is how misogynistic people think about older women, not how I personally think of them. Maybe, just maybe I'm trying to say there's no good age to be a woman, in the eyes of the kind of misogynists we're talking about here, because you're either too young or too old to be taken seriously IN THEIR EYES. (I repeat, because you seem to be having a little bit of trouble understanding this, I am not saying that women are either too old or young to be taken seriously). Hope that helps!

OP, have you read the Ask A Manager blog? The woman who writes it is American, but loads of her stuff is more generally relevant. On sexism in the workplace, she advocates hitting it back - " Why are you asking me to do your photocopying?" "If you can't use the printer, you need to talk to IT services". "Why did you assume I wouldn't know the contents on the llama acquisition report? I was the lead on that project, and I wrote the report"

If a man said those things, it would be no big deal. When a woman says them, she's touchy/a bitch. Embrace it, I say.

What's with people coming on here and taking a small quote out of the context of the whole post, completely and deliberately misconstruing it so the intention is the opposite of the original, and then using it to be nasty? Or perhaps you're an anti-feminist and trying to derail, but the conversation will continue regardless :) I'll be ignoring any further posts trying to make out that me describing misogyny is me exhibiting misogyny. Have a nice day!