Being treated like a 'bimbo'

[humbugbah]

I promise this isn't a stealth boast, but I'm 45 and seemingly look quite a bit younger due to a combination of features and genetics. That is to say, big blue eyes, chubby cheeks, blonde hair, button nose, curvy figure, very feminine voice. I'm not saying I look great, just a lot younger. I look very 'girly' even though my character isn't. I find that I'm constantly undermined in the workplace, get treated like I'm a wet behind the ears new starter and constantly have to prove myself. Partly the reason for this is that, due to the nature of my work, I'm with new colleagues almost every week, so it's only once I've spent some time working with them and proved myself that I get given any benefit of the doubt. I'm experienced and capable, I feel more so than a lot of other people I work with who don't have to deal with this battle to be taken seriously. I try to dress conservatively at work, but I was hoping others might be able to share some other advice as to how I can come across better. I'm too old and grumpy for this.

Thanks for the reference, SpikyHatePotato I haven't heard of that and will have a look.

Read it again and try to understand the nuances of conversation a little better. Do you think I'm suggesting that it's a good thing or a bad thing to be 'written off as a past it old dragon'?

I have read it and oddly enough, I'm pretty good at picking up nuance in conversation (as well as rudeness). I have no idea what you are suggesting - I'm taking issue with you describing older women in the workplace as 'past it old dragons.'

Sorry if that nuance escaped you.

Or perhaps you're an anti-feminist and trying to derail, but the conversation will continue regardless :)

I was a feminist when you were crawling around pooping your Pampers and sticking your fingers in plugholes, OP. Just calling out your rudeness and disparagement of older women who have the misfortune not to be as 'cute' as you.

I've made it clear that I was describing the misogyny of others and how they think of both young and old women in unflattering terms. I've never called an older woman a dragon or a younger woman a bimbo in my life, I have described how misogynists think of women using these terms. Oh I see, you think I'm boasting about being 'cute' and this is bothering you. No, I'm not, I'd much rather look sophisticated and intimidating, but I have trouble pulling that off unfortunately. We can all only do our best with what we've got though, eh?

Both my daughter and I fitted your profile. Big eyes, round face, curvey. Neither one of us as ever been patronized by anyone, more than once. We both reached (have reached in daughter's case) senior positions in our respective organisations.

I cannot advise you as I think our attitude (mine and my daughters) is innate. We were both brought up in a very matriachal family. It just never occurred to me that any one was ever better than me. Some were better at some things than us. We were better at others.

As the philosopher said "I've heard you say many times that your better than no one and no one is better than you". I think that's part of mine and my daughters philosophy too.

You might have a touch of imposter syndrome OP, which affects how you come across at work.

This book is a bit American but worth a read: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nice-Girls-Dont-Corner-Office/dp/1455558893/ref=ascdff1455558893nodl?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310737150369&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1871767692017670955&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9045283&hvtargid=pla-404766172959&psc=1&th=1&psc=1&dplnkId=7c9c74e6-8207-4f65-adb4-88cb35f98a15

Book looks great, Paq, thanks for that.
I really admire women like you, user1471453601. I try to have the same attitude, particularly as I've gotten older, but it wears me out constantly coming up against such stupid comments and attitudes. I had hoped one of the perks of getting older would have been to be taken a bit more seriously by now. I think younger people are better at estimating my age, but older people or the same age tend to think I'm a lot younger.

Have you looked at your body language and communication style OP? Regardless of how young you say you look or how feminine, it sounds like you are severely lacking in 'executive presence'. Whether you're 25 or 45, if you're actually a leader but you're mistaken for the tea lady, something is very wrong with how you're presenting and conducting yourself. Have you looked at this already?

I write this a woman working in a very male-dominated industry. Tall, blonde, soft voiced, friendly, look younger than I am. No-one has ever thought I was the tea lady, or was there to do their photocopying (even when I was in my early 20s). Jesus, I'd tear a strip off them if they even thought about suggesting it. Some male jokers may have tried briefly but I can assure you it never ended well for them. Yes there were times when I was not heard as the only female (and frequently youngest person) in the room but I looked hard at how I came across (not just me but how women behave at work) and made some changes. Body language can be a giveaway, as can communication style, there's lots to look at this area regardless of your gender. Gravitas is key. It sounds like you don't have any. You need to develop some fast.

I'm sadly not so youthful looking or cute anymore (although I do think some people think I am slightly younger than I am). The sexism though is rife.
I have a new starter (male) who I have put on a mentor programme.
Someone on his mentor's team emailed him saying I need to include you in a tender and I will charge you at £x that alright?
My new starter is 4 grades below me and wouldn't know how to price a major project. He also isn't necessarily the right person to be included in a pitch.Luckily he forwarded to me. I advised him to reply and say "Thanks very much but this decision and pricing needs to be made by Pearface" I then replied advising their costs etc were wrong and please come to me for costs.
The thing is I know why they didn't come to me - total boys club.

HundredMilesAnHour There's definitely some truth in what you're saying, I had severe confidence and self-esteem issues when I was younger for a lot of reasons, and whilst I feel a lot more comfortable in my own skin today, I'm sure there's still that residue there. It's also partly as I mentioned, constantly working with new people all the time. I usually gain their respect by the end of the week, but it gets tiring and feels like I'm put on trial all the time. Partly also the kind of colleagues I work with, probably.

@humbugbah This article might give you some ideas where to start and how to go about it:

www.betterup.com/blog/executive-presence

I wondered how many posts we’d get in before it was op’s fault. Yes, fix your body language op. As if none of us have thought of that before at the age of 40+ 😒

Sure, just ignore that it might be something subconscious and blame everyone else instead. That'll fix it. 🙄

If the OP is 45 and being treated like the young new joiner on a repeated basis by different people, she would have to be an idiot (or as arrogant as the pp) not to take a look at herself and reflect on if there's something she's doing (or not doing) which is contributing to the perception of her.

I appreciate the support, Friendlyplover. I agree that if I'm capable at my job and prove this on a regular basis, then my body language shouldn't be an issue, and the assumption shouldn't be there in the first place that if I look like a young woman I therefore must be less capable. To be fair to the other poster though, it is also true that body language can work against you if you don't seem confident. Unfortunately it's a vicious cycle, as the more undermined you are, the less confident you become. I don't think I'm guilty of anything if my body language isn't assertive enough, it's on them if they make sexist and ageist assumptions. There's no harm in looking at my body language as a tool to deal with difficult people and situations either though, and I did invite suggestions in the original post.

There are some good TED talks on this... Amy Cuddy has a few that I know of off hand

Same for me, in many different workplaces. Personally, I drop my age into conversation regularly, like saying that I've needed these strong glasses ever since I hit 40. I mention my 27yo daughter. I comment that my first job was in 1991. That I started school in 1981. That there are photos of me in flares in the 70s. Against the prevailing wisdom, my CV has my date of birth right at the top and during interviews I talk about the fact that my children are grown up (sex discrimination is a thing, especially against women of "child-bearing age", and employers DO avoid them, even if they don't admit it).

The other thing you might be unconsciously doing is playing the "office assistant", showing humility, or downplaying your intelligence, competence or expertise. I'm guessing it's the first one as you strike me as the sort of person who's actually willing to help others (especially with their menial tasks) so that is how they perceive you. @Fenella123 has a great perspective, I would second the self-intro with each new person you work with.

And the AAM blog is absolutely brilliant as @SpikyHatePotato said, there's an article or three specifically about this problem and the solution has always been that if someone asks you to do something that isn't in your job role, make the request weird. Look confused. Look as if they said something stupid. And react that way! Because, to be honest, it is definitely weird to ask a capable, trained specialist to do photocopying or make cups of tea. You could also bat it away to a random colleague - preferably a man on the same level or higher - by saying, "I'm a bit busy to be making you cups of tea, but I'm sure you could ask manager Fred to do it for you." They will find this ridiculous and hopefully realise their question was out of line.

Good luck xx