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Original poster

HR Advice appreciated

53 replies

Fandangoes · 20/12/2022 18:52

I would really appreciate others’ perspective on this situation, particularly if there are any HR professionals out there.

I am currently off work with work related stress (been off approx 2 months) - it’s not all work related, I have a lot going on at home too, work was just the final straw and it’s a very demanding job.

On Friday I was aware it was the work Christmas party, it started in the afternoon and went on into the evening, I did not attend. After 9pm I received a text to my personal work phone from the big boss (not my direct line manager) saying ‘This is John from work I want to arrange a chat x’. He has messaged me once before when he was out drunk but that was through the work messaging system. I have never given him my personal mobile and decided not to answer. After about a minute I received a 2nd text saying ‘2 blue ticks???’ Indicating he could see I had read his 1st message.

I chose not to reply and emailed him on Monday to arrange a call. During that call I asked him where he had got my number and he said HR had given it to him. I also told him I did not think it was ok for him to text me out of hours or when he had been drinking and I would rather he didn’t do this again. He said I’m not working at the moment so it wasn’t ‘out of hours’, that he was being nice checking up on me and that he wasn’t drunk and had left the party at 6pm, had meant to call me earlier but I was at the end of a long list of things he had to deal with. He basically shouted at me and said there was nothing wrong with what he had done and if I thought there was that’s because I am mentally ill.

I tried to speak to HR about it but the regular HR person is off on annual leave and so I had to speak with a new person who has only worked there a couple of weeks and I have never met / spoken with before. She seemed to imply she didn’t think he had done anything wrong either but I could put in a complaint if I wanted.

It feels like he is gaslighting me but I do accept I am struggling at the moment and am now questioning my own judgement. Was it ok for HR to give him my number without my permission and was it ok for me to ask him not contact me outside work hours? I would really appreciate some outsiders viewpoints.

OP posts:
Ursuladevine · 20/12/2022 18:57

No it was very wrong.

If you are officially signed off by a GP, then on no accounts should your boss be personally contacting you

Blowyourowntrumpet · 20/12/2022 18:58

I'd set up the meeting he's suggested and get someone to note take. You're in a difficult position regarding the conversation because it's your word against his.
Contacting you after 9pm and the "two blue ticks" comment is out of order in my opinion.

Ilikewinter · 20/12/2022 19:02

I think thonk the issue here is the inappropriate messaging at 9pm....and putting a 'x' after the message isnt professional.
Contacting you on your personal number within working hours to arrange a wellbeing call or absence meeting - my employer would do this for long term sick employees.

NoAlexa · 20/12/2022 19:03

Ilikewinter · 20/12/2022 19:02

I think thonk the issue here is the inappropriate messaging at 9pm....and putting a 'x' after the message isnt professional.
Contacting you on your personal number within working hours to arrange a wellbeing call or absence meeting - my employer would do this for long term sick employees.

I think the x is ops name

Original poster
Fandangoes · 20/12/2022 19:03

I’ve had the meeting he suggested - on the Monday. That’s when I told him I was t happy he had messaged me on the Friday night.

OP posts:
Original poster
Fandangoes · 20/12/2022 19:04

And the ‘x’ was a kiss at the end of his message!! I’m not taking anything sexual by that but just thought it was also inappropriate

OP posts:
Melonportal · 20/12/2022 19:09

Of course it's ok for a line manager to contact you. In fact, they have a responsibility to keep in touch while you're off long term. However, the way he has done this appears completely inappropriate. I think it's fine to ask to only be contacted during working hours, and to advise that you won't be available outside of those times.

Melonportal · 20/12/2022 19:11

Do you have a copy of your sickness policy?

Ursuladevine · 20/12/2022 19:12

Melonportal · 20/12/2022 19:09

Of course it's ok for a line manager to contact you. In fact, they have a responsibility to keep in touch while you're off long term. However, the way he has done this appears completely inappropriate. I think it's fine to ask to only be contacted during working hours, and to advise that you won't be available outside of those times.

It must follow very strictly guidelines and go through HR

Ursuladevine · 20/12/2022 19:14

It is a breach for HR to have provided your personal mobile to him so I wouldn’t count on much expertise from them

Quveas · 20/12/2022 19:22

Hmm. I'm not entirely happy with much of what you describe, but that's me. Should HR give your manager your personal number. Yes, that's reasonable. Out of hours contact? Possibly and probably not,, but what's "out of hours"? You accused him of being drunk. Probably not wise without evidence.

I think my ask would be what prospects are there for going back to work, and how do you envisage that happening? Because isn't that the underlying issue?

Veryverycalmnow · 20/12/2022 19:23

He sounds awful. I would just continue to be professional and only respond to him by email and continue to keep evidence of his behaviour. It's so unfair that he's treating you this way when you're unwell. I had a gaslighting, manipulative boss and was treated appallingly so changed jobs and now I'm in a much better place mentally. You shouldn't have to but would you consider a change of job?

Ursuladevine · 20/12/2022 19:23

Hr was NOT at liberty to give your personal number without asking you first!

Quveas · 20/12/2022 19:25

Ursuladevine · 20/12/2022 19:23

Hr was NOT at liberty to give your personal number without asking you first!

Really? The law on that would be?

BornBlonde · 20/12/2022 19:28

Very unprofessional of him

Original poster
Fandangoes · 20/12/2022 19:29

He is not my line manager, he is the big boss, at least 3 rungs up from me. It was after 9pm. There has been no other contact with him whilst I have been off. I had hoped to go back to work after Xmas but him shouting at me has made me feel worse again. I just wanted him to say sorry for texting me at 9pm and agree to keep to work emails in future. The “2 blue ticks” comment was really weird too?

OP posts:
Ursuladevine · 20/12/2022 19:32

Fandangoes · 20/12/2022 19:29

He is not my line manager, he is the big boss, at least 3 rungs up from me. It was after 9pm. There has been no other contact with him whilst I have been off. I had hoped to go back to work after Xmas but him shouting at me has made me feel worse again. I just wanted him to say sorry for texting me at 9pm and agree to keep to work emails in future. The “2 blue ticks” comment was really weird too?

Don’t let this derail you OP.
Do you have much to do with him?I am surprised that someone so senior is even particularly aware of your situation. Is it a large organisation?

are you signed off by a GP? Are you on full pay?

Veryverycalmnow · 20/12/2022 19:32

He was wrong to get and use your personal number. He was wrong to message so late, regardless of you not following your normal work hours due to illness, he should only use work hours for this in my opinion. Unless you're friends which you're not. He was wrong to comment on your lack of response and to imply that because you questioned all of the above your mental health is to blame, rather than admitting he had crossed a line or caused upset. Do they have any kind of wellbeing or mental health policy? When does the regular HR person come back?

Ursuladevine · 20/12/2022 19:33

When did he shout at you?!

Ursuladevine · 20/12/2022 19:34

Fandangoes · 20/12/2022 19:03

I’ve had the meeting he suggested - on the Monday. That’s when I told him I was t happy he had messaged me on the Friday night.

So you have already met with him? Surely that is a rather big update and was relevant to your OP! What happened during this meeting?

JustFrustrated · 20/12/2022 19:39

Ursuladevine · 20/12/2022 19:34

So you have already met with him? Surely that is a rather big update and was relevant to your OP! What happened during this meeting?

Show quote history

She literally says it in her OP.

Ursuladevine · 20/12/2022 19:41

Apologies I thought the OP meant she met him as in face to face

Watapalava · 20/12/2022 19:42

I wrote big message and lost it but to simplify (I manage staff and consult HR weekly):

he can use your number as he has responsibility to ring you

hr can pass it to him

he has every right to ring you on regular basis and request face to face. You have to attend if in their policy

in my workplace I have to meet monthly with staff off sick or they’re in breach of sick policy and lose pay. They can however choose location and time.

he shouldn’t ring you at 9pm

your reaction was ott and classic of someone who’s off sick long term and not engaging with the process

i imagine people have gone out, had a drink and complained at your being off and he’s got wound up and text you

long term sick puts pressure on others so i imagine your colleagues are fast losing sympathy here - I’d be more worried about what was said to him by those closer to you tbh

Watapalava · 20/12/2022 19:43

It is not HR responsibility to do the contacts off sick it’s your managers

HR dictate how bosses make adjustments etc but it’s not for hR to check in with employees it’s line managers

Onlythings · 20/12/2022 19:45

Watapalava · 20/12/2022 19:42

I wrote big message and lost it but to simplify (I manage staff and consult HR weekly):

he can use your number as he has responsibility to ring you

hr can pass it to him

he has every right to ring you on regular basis and request face to face. You have to attend if in their policy

in my workplace I have to meet monthly with staff off sick or they’re in breach of sick policy and lose pay. They can however choose location and time.

he shouldn’t ring you at 9pm

your reaction was ott and classic of someone who’s off sick long term and not engaging with the process

i imagine people have gone out, had a drink and complained at your being off and he’s got wound up and text you

long term sick puts pressure on others so i imagine your colleagues are fast losing sympathy here - I’d be more worried about what was said to him by those closer to you tbh

“your reaction was ott and classic of someone who’s off sick long term and not engaging with the process”

What? Feeling weirded out by the big boss texting her at 9pm, after a party, with kisses is an “OTT reaction”? Indicative of “not engaging”?!

I do not agree! @Fandangoes trust your instincts here