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Original poster

HR Advice appreciated

53 replies

Fandangoes · 20/12/2022 18:52

I would really appreciate others’ perspective on this situation, particularly if there are any HR professionals out there.

I am currently off work with work related stress (been off approx 2 months) - it’s not all work related, I have a lot going on at home too, work was just the final straw and it’s a very demanding job.

On Friday I was aware it was the work Christmas party, it started in the afternoon and went on into the evening, I did not attend. After 9pm I received a text to my personal work phone from the big boss (not my direct line manager) saying ‘This is John from work I want to arrange a chat x’. He has messaged me once before when he was out drunk but that was through the work messaging system. I have never given him my personal mobile and decided not to answer. After about a minute I received a 2nd text saying ‘2 blue ticks???’ Indicating he could see I had read his 1st message.

I chose not to reply and emailed him on Monday to arrange a call. During that call I asked him where he had got my number and he said HR had given it to him. I also told him I did not think it was ok for him to text me out of hours or when he had been drinking and I would rather he didn’t do this again. He said I’m not working at the moment so it wasn’t ‘out of hours’, that he was being nice checking up on me and that he wasn’t drunk and had left the party at 6pm, had meant to call me earlier but I was at the end of a long list of things he had to deal with. He basically shouted at me and said there was nothing wrong with what he had done and if I thought there was that’s because I am mentally ill.

I tried to speak to HR about it but the regular HR person is off on annual leave and so I had to speak with a new person who has only worked there a couple of weeks and I have never met / spoken with before. She seemed to imply she didn’t think he had done anything wrong either but I could put in a complaint if I wanted.

It feels like he is gaslighting me but I do accept I am struggling at the moment and am now questioning my own judgement. Was it ok for HR to give him my number without my permission and was it ok for me to ask him not contact me outside work hours? I would really appreciate some outsiders viewpoints.

OP posts:
girlmom21 · 20/12/2022 19:46

I wouldn't have been bothered by anything until the 'two blue ticks?' comment.

I think you need a meeting with him, your line manager and HR to discuss how they can support you in returning to work.

Ursuladevine · 20/12/2022 19:48

i imagine people have gone out, had a drink and complained at your being off and he’s got wound up and text you

this. I thought this but then thought better to say it!

Original poster
Fandangoes · 20/12/2022 19:49

Ursuladevine · 20/12/2022 19:34

So you have already met with him? Surely that is a rather big update and was relevant to your OP! What happened during this meeting?

Show quote history

It is in my OP - I appreciate it was long though. I mention that I emailed him on Monday to arrange a call and then during the call ……. I work remotely so there was never going to be a face to face.

OP posts:
Watapalava · 20/12/2022 19:50

Sorry I don’t mean my message to sound harsh!

but I’ve seen what sickness does to colleagues and other staff

100% others will be complaining and I guarantee they’ve gone out and discuses this - people have let their hair down and complained - he’s got involved because he wants it sorting.

sometimes sick policies don’t work well in all workplaces

in my work, staff can take 6 months paid and loads so milk it - but the work simply gets passed to colleagues rather than stopping - as such resentment builds hugely

it may be different in your work op but I can’t think of any other reason why your boss did this at this time in a night out

ModeWeasel · 20/12/2022 19:53

If it was your personal phone HR gave details of that’s out of order. You mention your ‘personal work phone’ though which would be a bit different?

123boom · 20/12/2022 19:54

The above scenario (disgruntled colleagues complaining) may have happened but the boss should still never have done this when you’re on sick leave. I’d personally consider the whole picture when thinking about how to respond to this- for example, have your work been otherwise good to you, have you felt supported, what other job opportunities are there?

Original poster
Fandangoes · 20/12/2022 19:55

Sorry it is my personal mobile phone - not a work phone

OP posts:
TinyChancer · 20/12/2022 19:57

He should not have texted you.
He should not have signed it off with an 'x'.
He should not have made reference to your mental health
He should not have said 'mentally ill', that's offensive terminology.
HR should not have given your phone number (that's a GDPR breach).
You should not have accused him of being drunk (even if he obviously was)

I'd do a formal grievance. If it were me, I'd write sexual harrassment, disability discrimination and bullying on the grievance.

Logginglogger · 20/12/2022 20:00

TinyChancer · 20/12/2022 19:57

He should not have texted you.
He should not have signed it off with an 'x'.
He should not have made reference to your mental health
He should not have said 'mentally ill', that's offensive terminology.
HR should not have given your phone number (that's a GDPR breach).
You should not have accused him of being drunk (even if he obviously was)

I'd do a formal grievance. If it were me, I'd write sexual harrassment, disability discrimination and bullying on the grievance.

Blimey.

Watapalava · 20/12/2022 20:01

your bods is entitled to your home number - data can be shared with those who need it in same company and for well-being reasons. It’s literally a boss job to check in.

who wouldn’t he have it anyway? When staff apply all their cvs etc come to me and I have all their details. Staff info isn’t only held by HR - I have all my staffs phone numbers.

don’t be focused on gdpr as it’s a non issue.

your boss has to have your number as he has a responsibility to check in on you. Not HR.

Ursuladevine · 20/12/2022 20:03

Op

are you signed off by a GP?

yesitssea · 20/12/2022 20:07

It's totally wrong and he's shitting it in case you go to HR.

Document everything, then go to HR.

CocoLux · 20/12/2022 20:08

TinyChancer · 20/12/2022 19:57

He should not have texted you.
He should not have signed it off with an 'x'.
He should not have made reference to your mental health
He should not have said 'mentally ill', that's offensive terminology.
HR should not have given your phone number (that's a GDPR breach).
You should not have accused him of being drunk (even if he obviously was)

I'd do a formal grievance. If it were me, I'd write sexual harrassment, disability discrimination and bullying on the grievance.

How to get yourself managed out at the first opportunity. What an overreaction.

Ursuladevine · 20/12/2022 20:09

@TinyChancer

”chancer”. Very apt

Melonportal · 20/12/2022 20:09

As I said before, it was unprofessional. It isn't a breach of anything though. OP, what is it you want from this? Do you want to return to work?

TinyChancer · 20/12/2022 20:11

She asked for HR advice. I'm HR qualified and also an experienced union rep (sit on several TUC committees too) who has not only won a tribunal case for similar reasons but also won them for others, but yeah, let her think she should just ignore it.

Logginglogger · 20/12/2022 20:12

*He basically shouted at me and said there was nothing wrong with what he had done and if I thought there was that’s because I am mentally Ill”

what did he actually say op. Did he really shout at you? Did he use the words mentally Ill?

Watapalava · 20/12/2022 20:13

Tinychancer

bullshit!!!

every single thing you said is categorically wrong

there isn’t a cat in hells chance you work in HR

OnceAgainWithFeeling · 20/12/2022 20:13

Ursuladevine · 20/12/2022 18:57

No it was very wrong.

If you are officially signed off by a GP, then on no accounts should your boss be personally contacting you

This is not correct. A fit note is not an invisibility cloak and if the diagnosis is work related stress the organisation should be trying to work out, with Occ health and others, how their employee can be supported.

But no, OP, as a HR Director I would not advise your manager did what they did.

Logginglogger · 20/12/2022 20:13

TinyChancer · 20/12/2022 20:11

She asked for HR advice. I'm HR qualified and also an experienced union rep (sit on several TUC committees too) who has not only won a tribunal case for similar reasons but also won them for others, but yeah, let her think she should just ignore it.

Wtf does hr qualified mean . I don’t really believe you’ve personally won anything for anyone. Your post was erroneous and ott.

OnceAgainWithFeeling · 20/12/2022 20:14

Ursuladevine · 20/12/2022 19:12

It must follow very strictly guidelines and go through HR

Show quote history

Not in any organisation I’ve worked in in the last 20 years. Managers MANAGE. With support from HR.

OnceAgainWithFeeling · 20/12/2022 20:15

Ursuladevine · 20/12/2022 19:14

It is a breach for HR to have provided your personal mobile to him so I wouldn’t count on much expertise from them

Again, where are you getting this utterly duff advice from?

devildeepbluesea · 20/12/2022 20:17

Good Lord, so much bad advice on one thread.

LonginesPrime · 20/12/2022 20:17

I agree with PPs that this was inappropriate, but I do have a couple of questions:

  1. are you in an industry/workplace where signing off with kisses is the norm? Because that in itself might not be so weird depending on the context (although other elements are still inappropriate).

  2. would it have been possible for him to contact you on a work phone or via email instead? The "blue ticks" comment clearly indicate that he was hoping for a response that evening, which is obviously inappropriate, especially given the timing, but I wonder if his argument would be that you have an ooo on your email and that he had no other way to contact you. Still not ok, though.

I also don't agree with his assertion that he was 'just being friendly' and checking in on you - if I were off sick and my big boss messaged me like that with a neutral "i want to talk to you" message on the night I know everyone else in the company is together, I'd be terrified he was going to fire me, tbh. It doesn't sound like a supportive message at all, and to send it last thing on a Friday night when you can't find out what it's about until Monday at the earliest is unnecessarily cruel as it leaves the recipient hanging all weekend - it feels like a massively shitty thing to do to an employee who's already off sick with stress.

Logginglogger · 20/12/2022 20:24

LonginesPrime · 20/12/2022 20:17

I agree with PPs that this was inappropriate, but I do have a couple of questions:

  1. are you in an industry/workplace where signing off with kisses is the norm? Because that in itself might not be so weird depending on the context (although other elements are still inappropriate).

  2. would it have been possible for him to contact you on a work phone or via email instead? The "blue ticks" comment clearly indicate that he was hoping for a response that evening, which is obviously inappropriate, especially given the timing, but I wonder if his argument would be that you have an ooo on your email and that he had no other way to contact you. Still not ok, though.

I also don't agree with his assertion that he was 'just being friendly' and checking in on you - if I were off sick and my big boss messaged me like that with a neutral "i want to talk to you" message on the night I know everyone else in the company is together, I'd be terrified he was going to fire me, tbh. It doesn't sound like a supportive message at all, and to send it last thing on a Friday night when you can't find out what it's about until Monday at the earliest is unnecessarily cruel as it leaves the recipient hanging all weekend - it feels like a massively shitty thing to do to an employee who's already off sick with stress.

I strongly suspect actually it was like he said, he as trying to be nice, the x showed it was him being friendly, and softened it. Of course it was inappropriate but In that moment he probably thought he was in fact being nice and seeing if she was ok, hence the two blue ticks comment follow up.

however the thr op needs to clarify what exactly happened at the meeting did he actually shout and did he actually say she was mentally Ill. Sometimes two people have very different views of the same event. So she needs to be clear on what actually happened.

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