Page 3 | Flexible working refused (despite role being advertised as flexible) - County Council

gingerbreadtits · 2022-11-22T13:17:33+00:00

Can anyone please tell me what "flexible working will be considered for this position" means if the hours and work place setting are non negotiable? I have applied for two "open to flexible working" roles at the local Council and been offered both roles only to find out that the role is 37 hours and on site only. So what does "flexible" actually mean? Has anyone negotiated part time hours with the Council before? I want to do 30 hours. (No support here and our wraparound care is often cancelled by the school at last minute) I'm even happy to pick up the additional 7 hours in the evenings WFH but this too isn't allowed despite both being "flexible" roles. They have a full web page dedicated to how amazing they are as employers (term time only, part time, compressed hours, WFH, hot decking etc etc!). Theyve attended all the career fairs to encourage people to apply for roles. They have advertising on buses about "flexible working" & and keep whining about a skills shortage! I'm confused - so what ^is ^flexible working in the public sector? 😁

Princessglittery · 22/11/2022 19:20

gingerbreadtits · 22/11/2022 16:06

Update: they've offered the role to me part time! (30 hours)

😁😁😁

The role was advertised as full time 37 hours but they just said "it doesn't make sense to anyone, as our full time is 35 hours a week"

I had to laugh!

@gingerbreadtits good for you, hopefully they may feedback to HR.

There is a lot of confusion about what flexible working actually is.

The right to request flexible working is about:

where you work - location
when you work - dates and times
how you work.

Flexi time and part time are just examples of flexible working along with job share, compressed bourse, WFH, hybrid working and Homeworking.

Vacancy adverts that just state flexible working actually mean very little and are often a PR exercise. Those that specifically state part time, job share, flexi time etc. are much clearer.

cansu · 22/11/2022 19:27

flexible working is usually about hours so you could for example work later to compensate for an early finish on one day.

Original poster

gingerbreadtits · 22/11/2022 19:30

hooksb · 22/11/2022 19:16

I'm slightly confused by some of the responses. Flexitime is not the same flexible working. The former is some flexibility about start and finish times. The latter is absolutely meant to be broader flexibility.

Flexi-time or a core hours based system does not require a big advertising campaign!

Flexible working for me, in the public sector, has meant having an agreed number of hours and flexibility in how I met them. There was scope for new starters to negotiate hours or part time/job share options. Someone agreeing to 25 hours a week would have flexibility to decide whether that would be spread over 5 days, condensed into 3, or something else.

There was no issue taking a short lunch break and then doing the school run at 3/3:30pm, then carrying on working. It was obviously not okay to collect a 4/5 year old and pretend to carry on working. But it was okay if the child was old enough to entertain themselves or another parent returned home to take over at 4/4:30pm. It was okay to work from home for deliveries or because it meant a whole morning/day wasn't needed for a medical appointment. There were staff on term time only contracts paid pro rata over the year so the same pay each month. There were staff who worked one pattern term time (e.g. 9-3 for 5 days a week) and then a different pattern in school holidays (e.g. 8-6 for 3 days a week).

It was possible to take some time off in the afternoon to take care of a sick toddler sent home from nursery, and then catch up on that work in the evening.

Just some examples. But basically it was about having flexibility to manage your time, as an adult, with a focus on outputs and not presenteeism. It's an ethos and working environment, not about clocks. There was only an issue of work didn't get done or, for example, someone who'd said they'd work 9-5 was inexplicably never available after 3pm. Staff were trusted. It worked well.

It was very different from core hours based flexi-time which can still involve presenteeism based management!

This is exactly how it was advertised on their designated "Flexible working" web page and advertising campaign.

Lots of talk about term time only and school hours for all advertised roles...

Thanks everyone! It has been insightful 😊

OP posts:

giraffesoxks · 22/11/2022 20:02

hooksb · 22/11/2022 19:16

I'm slightly confused by some of the responses. Flexitime is not the same flexible working. The former is some flexibility about start and finish times. The latter is absolutely meant to be broader flexibility.

Flexi-time or a core hours based system does not require a big advertising campaign!

Flexible working for me, in the public sector, has meant having an agreed number of hours and flexibility in how I met them. There was scope for new starters to negotiate hours or part time/job share options. Someone agreeing to 25 hours a week would have flexibility to decide whether that would be spread over 5 days, condensed into 3, or something else.

There was no issue taking a short lunch break and then doing the school run at 3/3:30pm, then carrying on working. It was obviously not okay to collect a 4/5 year old and pretend to carry on working. But it was okay if the child was old enough to entertain themselves or another parent returned home to take over at 4/4:30pm. It was okay to work from home for deliveries or because it meant a whole morning/day wasn't needed for a medical appointment. There were staff on term time only contracts paid pro rata over the year so the same pay each month. There were staff who worked one pattern term time (e.g. 9-3 for 5 days a week) and then a different pattern in school holidays (e.g. 8-6 for 3 days a week).

It was possible to take some time off in the afternoon to take care of a sick toddler sent home from nursery, and then catch up on that work in the evening.

Just some examples. But basically it was about having flexibility to manage your time, as an adult, with a focus on outputs and not presenteeism. It's an ethos and working environment, not about clocks. There was only an issue of work didn't get done or, for example, someone who'd said they'd work 9-5 was inexplicably never available after 3pm. Staff were trusted. It worked well.

It was very different from core hours based flexi-time which can still involve presenteeism based management!

Yea this is the same as mine, but better put :)

momlette · 22/11/2022 23:45

Quveas · 22/11/2022 16:00

This - the advertisements are usually generic and state what patterns exist over the whole organisation. That isn't the same thing as having a right to it for all roles. If a role requires fixed hours, fixed location etc, then that is what is required. SOmetimes it's a case of "last in" - if others who already work there have chosen other patterns, all that may be left to cover a service may be specific times and places.

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Exactly it’s a generic template and there’s a standard statement about consideration to flex working requests. The operative word being “ consider”. They can consider and say no.

hooksb · 23/11/2022 09:26

In the flexible environment I mentioned, it wasn't uncommon for someone working from home to start at 8, stop at 3:15 sometimes then come back and finish the working day at 5/6/7pm. That was an option rather than doing 8-4 straight through. All fine, unless there was a meeting at 4pm or something. Managers didn't need to be told - the work just needed doing!

As I said, it's about an overall environment.

That level of flexibility isn't possible in some roles. Phones can't be left unanswered, reception desks can't be left unstaffed, IT support is needed during all standard working hours, etc. But most office based council roles could be done flexibly. If the majority of jobs can't be done flexibly in this one council, then it shouldn't sell itself as a flexible work environment.

Sometimes there are traditional or micromanaging type managers who resist official policy for bizarre reasons (I've worked for one of those!). I'd ask them if they could explain what flexible working means and who gets to work flexibly in the ways that are publicised? Explain you'd like to know for any potential future applications. Perhaps ask HR, so they are aware of what's going on?

SweetSakura · 25/11/2022 00:39

How frustrating. I have a senior public sector role and work 9.30-2.30 most days. Some at home, some in the office. I actually work long hours but all the rest of them I do while the kids are at clubs/in bed.

It works well for me but means I don't get much ",me time"

But what is agreed does seem to vary wildly between teams

ButterflyBiscuit · 25/11/2022 06:55

I would love to move to a role with flexible working or even flexitime!!

bloodyeverlastinghell · 25/11/2022 07:10

My council advertises all roles with a we’re a family friendly, flexible employer blurb. Then for people on gardening team they work 7-7 for four days a week which is impossible with a family commitments.

Honestly I work for the council, I accepted the job then adapted the hours to suit me. I start early and finish early twice a week. Sometimes do evening work. I did get whinged at for not going in on Thursday this week. Schools are closed as some teachers on strike by order of the council. Dc are primary age but generally it’s fine.