Page 3 | Help / Advice - Possible Gross Misconduct?

Over40Chasm · 2022-09-11T19:40:55+00:00

Help / advice please no judgement…. I’m a married male. Went on a work trip a while back, got pretty boozy and danced with a more junior colleague. Closer than we should have. We stopped and then I made some stupid comment about our behaviour not being appropriate and an ethical / moral test. Didn’t do anything else, other than chat and then realised how late it was so headed back to my room (alone). Fast forward 6 weeks (was on hols for 3 of them) and I’m called into see HR. HR basically asking questions like, “a witness described you and XXX as dancing closely together, did she do anything inappropriate, was it consensual” and then got asked if I’ve ever put any employees through a “moral test”… I’m freaking out… Implied I’d been pinching her bum… Never said anything sexual to her, never did anything other than dance and talk. I went back to HR a few days later with some points of clarification and was then asked “did you try and kiss her?”. I’m horrified. Help… this feels like a he said / she said and it’s not going to end well. I’ve told my wife *everything* and yes I know there’ll be those who’ll look at that with raised eyebrows. I’ve apologised to her, it was completely out of character for me and I’m normally quite in control. I wish I’d just gone to bed early, and yes I’ll own up to dancing etc. but I’m so worried I’m about to be done for harassment and then it’s game over…. Anyone in HR around to advise… Feels like my goose is cooked. I’ll admit I made some mistakes but I didn’t kiss or make any sexual comments. Yes I’d had some alcohol but I *know* I didn’t do it…. HELP!

AquaticSewingMachine · 04/10/2022 12:27

Over40Chasm · 03/10/2022 21:33

So update. I’m being taken to disciplinary. I’m accused of sexual harassment. Apparently I

Asked if she had ever cheated
Touched her bottom
Cornered her dancing

”the allegation included but was not limited to”

I’m just drained and devoid of all energy. I’ve no idea how to fight it, and yes I am pissed off. Apparently she spoke to people the next morning and was “visibly upset”. I’ve got a picture of her after we danced showing her chatting happily with one of our colleagues and no sign of distress. I’ve also got a text that morning where we talked about going shopping the next day and she said she still wanted to go (was her idea).

I’ve made some poor choices this year for sure, and yes I danced with her. But the rest of it didn’t happen. Has now been passed to our HR. I’m going to talk to someone legal tomorrow.

Honesty I feel like I’m in a nightmare that I can’t wake up from.

Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit.

The fact that she didn't "look upset" afterwards does not mean you had her consent.

If that is what she says, you have fucked up big. You have harassed and assaulted her.

HappyHamsters · 04/10/2022 13:39

Why did you even swap phone numbers. At the end of the day you are older, senior and even if allthis has been exaggerated or a gross misunderstanding on both your parts I suspect you will get the blame. Just leave.

boredOf · 04/10/2022 14:05

Oh dear good luck

HuntingoftheSnark · 04/10/2022 14:47

Hi OP, it all sounded a really unfortunate incident that could be attributed to a bystander misconstruing - but why did you arrange to go shopping with her?! It's irrelevant whose idea it was.

fdkc · 04/10/2022 15:15

I have just read this post from start to finish and sorry now but I'm delighted you are being taken to task over your disgusting behaviour. Even if the allegation is exaggerated, you behaved appallingly. Men can be such fucking creeps. Why would you a middle aged man think a young colleague has any interest in you that you'd try it on with her and at a work do 🙄🙄

If my husband came home and admitted what you have admitted to your wife you would be gone. No married man or woman should be flirting or grinding with another person and with spectators aswell. You embarrassed yourself and made little of your marriage. I sincerely hope you have learned your lesson but something tells me you would do the same again only be more careful next time.

PurpleHoney · 04/10/2022 16:19

fdkc · 04/10/2022 15:15

I have just read this post from start to finish and sorry now but I'm delighted you are being taken to task over your disgusting behaviour. Even if the allegation is exaggerated, you behaved appallingly. Men can be such fucking creeps. Why would you a middle aged man think a young colleague has any interest in you that you'd try it on with her and at a work do 🙄🙄

If my husband came home and admitted what you have admitted to your wife you would be gone. No married man or woman should be flirting or grinding with another person and with spectators aswell. You embarrassed yourself and made little of your marriage. I sincerely hope you have learned your lesson but something tells me you would do the same again only be more careful next time.

100% agree with everything said here.

Drunken dancing from my DH I could possibly think about moving on from. Subsequent arrangements for a shopping trip make this MUCH more morally reprehensible.

OneFrenchEgg · 04/10/2022 17:02

I think the shopping trip is worse than the stupid 'grinding' which is gross. Whose idea was it? She probably said yes as she didn't want to lose her job. Or she fancies you, you've pulled back and she's pissed off and feels hurt. Whatever way I had some sympathy until the bloody shopping trip.

HappyHamsters · 04/10/2022 18:43

Theres something very odd about all this, it all sounds extremely childish, unprofessional and out of a 1980s music video. Getting pissed, bumping and grinding, texting each other that all leads to a complaint. It sounds more like flirting that went disastrously wrong .and

Original poster

Over40Chasm · 04/10/2022 19:25

HuntingoftheSnark · 04/10/2022 14:47

Hi OP, it all sounded a really unfortunate incident that could be attributed to a bystander misconstruing - but why did you arrange to go shopping with her?! It's irrelevant whose idea it was.

I felt uncomfortable about it at the time tbf. I should have just said this doesn’t feel appropriate. But I didn’t….

OP posts:

Original poster

Over40Chasm · 04/10/2022 19:26

OneFrenchEgg · 04/10/2022 17:02

I think the shopping trip is worse than the stupid 'grinding' which is gross. Whose idea was it? She probably said yes as she didn't want to lose her job. Or she fancies you, you've pulled back and she's pissed off and feels hurt. Whatever way I had some sympathy until the bloody shopping trip.

Hers. Not mine…. As previously stated I felt uncomfortable and should just have said no. But I didn’t.

OP posts:

Original poster

Over40Chasm · 04/10/2022 19:32

fdkc · 04/10/2022 15:15

I have just read this post from start to finish and sorry now but I'm delighted you are being taken to task over your disgusting behaviour. Even if the allegation is exaggerated, you behaved appallingly. Men can be such fucking creeps. Why would you a middle aged man think a young colleague has any interest in you that you'd try it on with her and at a work do 🙄🙄

If my husband came home and admitted what you have admitted to your wife you would be gone. No married man or woman should be flirting or grinding with another person and with spectators aswell. You embarrassed yourself and made little of your marriage. I sincerely hope you have learned your lesson but something tells me you would do the same again only be more careful next time.

No. I have learned my lesson. I get the dancing wasn’t right and I’ve apologised a million times to my wife for it. And I get why you’d think that. I can’t go back and change time. I’ve been honest with my wife and I’ll spend forever making it up to her. I’ve ducked out of all work nights out, apart from one that I made sure I didn’t drink and left at 7:30. Yes I embarrassed myself, and I know I made little of my marriage. I could go into background but that’s just excuses. I’m trying to be better, god knows I’m not perfect. I love my wife and family

Finally... I didn’t think she was interested and it’s only now I see the full scope of what I’m being accused of…. In my head I’d done some inappropriate dancing and that was it… I can completely understand where she’s coming from but obviously it’s too late to apologise.

OP posts:

HappyHamsters · 04/10/2022 19:35

Whatever happens you really should be able to go out on a work or any other night out without getting drunk. You shouldn't have to cancel nights out because you can't control yourself.

Original poster

Over40Chasm · 04/10/2022 19:40

HappyHamsters · 04/10/2022 19:35

Whatever happens you really should be able to go out on a work or any other night out without getting drunk. You shouldn't have to cancel nights out because you can't control yourself.

It’s not about not controlling myself. It’s about getting myself into a position where this is even a question. I fear however it may be too late….

OP posts:

thefartingfish · 04/10/2022 19:54

Yes, your actions were questionable, and not appropriate for someone senior. You need to find a good employment solicitor who can conjure up some damage limitation and help extract you from this situation so you are able to start your new job.

Original poster

Over40Chasm · 04/10/2022 20:11

thefartingfish · 04/10/2022 19:54

Yes, your actions were questionable, and not appropriate for someone senior. You need to find a good employment solicitor who can conjure up some damage limitation and help extract you from this situation so you are able to start your new job.

Already working on it… feel like work are pushing this at pace to come to an outcome

OP posts:

OneFrenchEgg · 04/10/2022 21:23

Do you actually know that this is coming from her? She's put in a compliant against you?
Maybe she thinks you came up behind her, initiated the dancing, and did you text the next day? About seeing each other (shopping)? That could definitely be misinterpreted in light of your moral test comment the night before. Like shopping would lead to sex basically and was she up for it.

Original poster

Over40Chasm · 04/10/2022 21:49

OneFrenchEgg · 04/10/2022 21:23

Do you actually know that this is coming from her? She's put in a compliant against you?
Maybe she thinks you came up behind her, initiated the dancing, and did you text the next day? About seeing each other (shopping)? That could definitely be misinterpreted in light of your moral test comment the night before. Like shopping would lead to sex basically and was she up for it.

Yes. 100% now. I have all the statements etc. it’s he says she says. To be clear. I said that day I wanted to go shopping in the evening. She asked if she could join. I said yes but uncomfortable run out of time so didn’t happen.

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OneFrenchEgg · 04/10/2022 21:52

I would definitely be following the advice of a employment solicitor tbh. I think you want an clean exit and no bad smell following you, and this sounds like it could be messy.

Original poster

Over40Chasm · 04/10/2022 22:01

OneFrenchEgg · 04/10/2022 21:52

I would definitely be following the advice of a employment solicitor tbh. I think you want an clean exit and no bad smell following you, and this sounds like it could be messy.

Frankly where it is now I think it’s messy. He said she said. I’ve been honest through out but feel the chips are against me. Part of me wants to quit corporate and go and live in a yurt. But that makes me worse as I have a family to support… I’ll find a way.

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OneFrenchEgg · 04/10/2022 22:26

Yes. I hope this doesn't end your career , mainly for your family's sake as you've been really inappropriate.
I think the bits around the edges like messaging are worse than if it was a stupid dance that you both broke off.
Hopefully your solicitor can guide you through and this will come to an end.