Help / Advice - Possible Gross Misconduct?

[Over40Chasm]

Help / advice please no judgement….

I’m a married male. Went on a work trip a while back, got pretty boozy and danced with a more junior colleague.

Closer than we should have. We stopped and then I made some stupid comment about our behaviour not being appropriate and an ethical / moral test.

Didn’t do anything else, other than chat and then realised how late it was so headed back to my room (alone). Fast forward 6 weeks (was on hols for 3 of them) and I’m called into see HR.

HR basically asking questions like, “a witness described you and XXX as dancing closely together, did she do anything inappropriate, was it consensual” and then got asked if I’ve ever put any employees through a “moral test”… I’m freaking out… Implied I’d been pinching her bum… Never said anything sexual to her, never did anything other than dance and talk. I went back to HR a few days later with some points of clarification and was then asked “did you try and kiss her?”. I’m horrified. Help… this feels like a he said / she said and it’s not going to end well.

I’ve told my wife everything and yes I know there’ll be those who’ll look at that with raised eyebrows. I’ve apologised to her, it was completely out of character for me and I’m normally quite in control. I wish I’d just gone to bed early, and yes I’ll own up to dancing etc. but I’m so worried I’m about to be done for harassment and then it’s game over…. Anyone in HR around to advise… Feels like my goose is cooked. I’ll admit I made some mistakes but I didn’t kiss or make any sexual comments. Yes I’d had some alcohol but I know I didn’t do it…. HELP!

Yes - she's younger... and yes I was a twat. I just don't know how I convince HR that I'm innocent.... My only hope is that the witness they have saw it and said it was consensual. I've no idea why she said I tried to kiss her. Weirdly when HR told me that I was actually happy as I know 100% that didn't happen

I mean, all you can do here is stick to your version of events. If you're secure in your own mind that what you did was A totally consensual and B you didn't kiss her / grope her, then you've done absolutely nothing wrong. The conversation you've had to have with your wife is a separate and personal matter

So is it time to get a little bit angry here? If I was totally 'innocent' and these 'allegations' had been made about me to such an extent that it may threaten my reputation and new job, I'd be absolutely furious. I would only be tip toeing about carefully if I felt I'd overstepped a mark

Only you know if you did. Taking you at face value, you didn't. So it's probably time to start finding a little bit of gumption.

Have you actually even been accused of anything. It sounds more like you may both have been a bit over the top with dancing and grinding but you both felt it was inappropriate so stopped.

A union won't support you now. Would you take out house insurance after the fire? But do take it out. You may never need it again. But insured houses may never born down either! You insure for what hasn't happened, not what has.

This is a reach. I'm guessing. I think the woman had been interviewed and told the truth. Which would suggest you are stupid but not anything more. But there is at least one other person here, and that is the person who started all this. The "additional details" suggest a grudge. These are not things that one mistakes. You see them or you don't. Is there an obvious candidate?

Don't go to a lawyer yet. They can't help or support you until you are dismissed. Which it hopefully doesn't come to. You can get free advice for an initial consultation only once. Then you start wracking up bills. So don't use that until you know you need it.

Just tell the truth and hope for the best... Good luck

You seem rather worried considering all you did was dance with a colleague and have lots of witnesses as to what happened.

and on that basis you shouldn’t be worried at all

From your namechange fail it seems like your ethics/morals are a bit all over the place at the moment.

That’s the thing. There weren’t lots of witnesses.

I agree they are… I’ve made some mistakes for sure.

How is it all going?

Mentally I’m better, lots of ups and downs last few weeks, but I’m kind of in a space now of what will be will be. It’s all down to perception now and out of my hands.

I messaged HR on Friday as I’ve not heard anything and they said I should hear at some point this week. They’re “waiting on approval” from their investigation.

I should never have allowed myself to get into that position in the first place so been doing a lot of reflecting on how I got here, factors influencing behaviour and ethics this year. And equally how the other woman may be feeling, but clearly I’m not in contact with her for a host of pretty self evident reasons. I’ve also got a lot of other stuff going on in my life right now that’s not helping but equally that’s not an excuse for my behaviour.

Ive stopped attending after work drinks (been invited to a few events) and am doing a lot of reading and just strengthening my relationships at home. Cut down on unhealthy things (food / YouTube / etc.) Most around me are positive I’ll be OK but I’m not so sure. I’ve stuck to the truth in my conversations. Best case outcome a disciplinary for being an idiot, worst case is as the title. I’m also coming up with a Plan B for if I do get fired. I’ll have to have a hard conversation with my new employer but if that’s the case then I’m prepared for it.

I'd speak to an employment lawyer OP. They may be able to give you some guidance on resisting any gross misconduct charge, or on delaying the process so that your notice expires before your employer reaches a decision.

Spoke to an employment lawyer last week. I can hand in my notice with immediate effect but they can still put on my reference I was under investigation, plus it makes me look guilty and how to explain to people in the specialist field I reside in what happened. Or I can front into it and see what work do. I’ve chosen the latter. It may burn me but I’d rather defend my stupid actions than be pursued for breach of contract etc. I’m hoping truth will out and all will be ok. Time will tell

It sounds like someone else has complained about both you and the colleague and you’ve both been questioned and now they’re investigating it. If that’s case it probably won’t go anywhere.

do you know what it is you are being accused of and investigated for? have you seen the complaint. Don't rush to resign, why do you think you will be fired for being a bit drunk, dancing with a colleague, doing a bit of bump and grinding that you both agreed was inappropriate and stopped straight away.

Would be nice to know that. Thing is boss told me today I could leave a couple of weeks earlier than my notice if I wanted given everything going on. I’m half tempted but does look like I’m running away. Equally he has no idea of what outcome is looking like.

Nope no idea. Problem is I’m more senior than she is, so it could turn out to be classic he said / she said. I’ve no reason to think she’d lie but maybe her perspective of events is different. Thing is I’d resigned after the event (had a job lined up) but before the investigation. Arrggghhh. My final date is end Oct.

I am no expert but I always thought that there is a clear discinary process employers have to follow including sending the accused a copy of that process, the appeal process and a copy of the complaint and any statements. Have you spoken to ACAS.

So update. I’m being taken to disciplinary. I’m accused of sexual harassment. Apparently I

Asked if she had ever cheated
Touched her bottom
Cornered her dancing

”the allegation included but was not limited to”

I’m just drained and devoid of all energy. I’ve no idea how to fight it, and yes I am pissed off. Apparently she spoke to people the next morning and was “visibly upset”. I’ve got a picture of her after we danced showing her chatting happily with one of our colleagues and no sign of distress. I’ve also got a text that morning where we talked about going shopping the next day and she said she still wanted to go (was her idea).

I’ve made some poor choices this year for sure, and yes I danced with her. But the rest of it didn’t happen. Has now been passed to our HR. I’m going to talk to someone legal tomorrow.

Honesty I feel like I’m in a nightmare that I can’t wake up from.

A colleague once briefly grabbed my breasts on a works night out, if you had taken a photo of me later that evening, I wouldn’t have shown any visible signs of distress either. But I can assure you, now about 25 years later, that I was upset and I am still angry about it. I am not taking sides here, I don’t know what happened, but I don’t think her chatting to a colleague happily proves anything.

You have handed in your notice anyway, why don’t you just expedite your leaving process.

Why were you going shopping with her, it all sounds very strange. If you both had too much to drink then you both behaved a bit bad. Who actually made the allegation? I would fight it if I was innocent and valued my job but you are leaving anyway, I would respond with a firm denial if this didnt happen and seek legal advice. If its all lies then you counterclaim.
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I’ve also got a text that morning where we talked about going shopping the next day and she said she still wanted to go (was her idea).

Oh dear. I was with you until this last sentence.

you are adamant you were aware the dancing (grinding ) went too far so you took yourself off to bed, found your conscience, apologised to your wife, cancelled all future work social events, found a new job (happy coincidence!).

But the next morning you engage in talk about a shopping trip AND and make sure you lay the blame squarely at her feet... "it was her idea guv".

An older, senior, married man grinding on the dance floor with a younger female employee. Gross. No wonder she feels violated.

No - arms not around her, I was dancing behind her and we started grinding. I know I know...

You've admitted you were grinding on the dance floor inappropriately. So you probably did touch her bottom.

At this stage, bearing in mind you've already resigned, go to HR and ask for a conversation Without Prejudice (I.e. it can't be used against you). And ask if you can end your employment immediately, without disciplinary action.

It's unlikely that your case will be resolved by the time you leave anyway so you'd always have an open case hanging over you.

Most importantly - Learn from your mistake and do better.

I do agree with this. She was probably trying to make sure she didn’t lose her job!

The photo proves nothing women have been raped and then still ‘been friends’ or continued relationships or acted ‘normally’ with their rapist, so I don’t think after what happened she ‘should have’ done anything differently than what she did.