Can you get rid of someone for no real reason ?

[sevensongs]

We have 2 staff members at loggerheads bringing the whole team down. Morale is at all time low. Staff A been with us 5 years, Staff B for 9 months (passed probation at 6 months).
Both staff perform well but cannot work together, Everything has been tried to address the situation but it's hopeless.

Obviously A has employment rights but no real reason to sack B, but really it would be best if one of them left. There are no protected characteristics for either of them.

At my wits end so could I just say to B that it's not working out?

A is being picked on and intimidated by B who seems to have some sort of chip on her shoulder and resents A for being not only younger, but slightly senior. A is only a trainee, and needs support and training from management in how to deal with this sort of manipulator.

The more the OP says, the more I think B has to go.

Easy one really...

If the member of staff (A) who has been with the company has always performed well and worked well with everyone else in the past then the issue is with the new person (B), so you get rid of them.

It is likely B is a trouble maker and the situation won't improve. You can reason with difficult people, often the best thing to do is to let them go.

Was person A ok before person B arrived?

I have come the same conclusion that it's best if B should leave. But what do o say. We do have a grievance procedure but to be honest her work is fine. She performs her tasks well. It's solely the impact on the team. Is it allowed to say this. I really don't want to get this wrong.

I’d get rid of B too, it’s likely she was good at her last job but resents being the newby and bottom of the food chain and answering to a younger model, that she may see as being inferior. She’s played it wrong, she should have been modest and excelled and used her experience to progress.

get rid.

She isn’t a good fit for the team 👋🏽

Where has the OP said that A is being picked on and intimidated? OP has said she believes that B has an issue being managed by someone younger, but doesn’t seem to have confirmation of it.

I think you need to speak to a professional tbh like a lawyer before you do anything else.

You're right, I do favour A but not in a personal sense, just the amount of knowledge she has. We have no one who could step up into her role if she left and I would need to take back a ton load of work that I trained her to do and delegated to her. So yes, I accept I'm biased.

But actually I do like B, she is more my sort of person but the job is stressful enough and this is addicting g to it tenfold.
I'm thinking I should just leave as I'm really doubting my abilities over this 😩

You need advice. You don't seem to have the .... backbone you deal with this. Most of this is common sense.

Haaving been an A myself in the past, that is merely my perception of it. B has got it in for A, and is trying to manipulate the management - the OP - into thinking that the problem is A's fault.

My 1st thought is

speak with a- get her to actually manage this person. Maybe include yourself in the meeting and meet with b and set appropriate clear targets of what needs doing and when etc, then following performance management procedures and schedule regular supervision in. Make sure they are minuted and signed by both a and b.

speak with b- be clear that a is her manager and is responsible for giving her task and managing them. If b is unsure or needs questions answering they should email them to a so that she has a paper trail of anything unanswered and a reference to go back to. google is also an option depending on the wuestion

evaluate after whether b has a case - ie have their queries actually gone unanswered?

see if by clarifying that it is a’s job and they have your backing whether b’a attitude changes

if not then it’s time to get rid of whoever is not doing their role and I would seek legal advice as to how to do that.

this could be a valuable learning curve for a in management.

ACAS is your friend here! Get some sound advice then you can go in what ever direction you want / feel is necessary.

That’s not perception, that’s projection.

So if their shifts only overlap and there are other shifts, does A not manage everyone then? Have you actually checked whether A responds to queries from B or just 'asked the wider team' for their opinions? Have you actually looked at what A is doing?

You need to get a grip on this, and asking the wider team is just ramping up the drama - why have you dragged everyone else into something between two people? If A is a manager, she can't refuse to attend a meeting with B. It's hard to see what the problem actually is if all the work is being done well. If someone is doing something they should not, apply the disciplinary policy.

ok retired manager here. I bet you won't like my answer but its about getting benefit from the situation!! If A is your management trainee then I think that the management of B should be part of her training. I think you need to support A in the management of B. Is A actually B's supervisor?
So here's what I'd do. Sort yourself out with a plan on how B should be managed...policies processes, what you can and can't do in law...the lot...or you may already know this although it doesn't sound like it...and that's ok we all learn all the time.
Then you get A in and you tell her that she is going to supervise and manage B and reassure her that you will be there every single step of the way. Tell her to go off and do her research to come up with the same stuff that you have...but don't tell her you have done it already...you might want to give her pointers on this or help her plan. You set up a timescale and then you do it. If it was me, I'd have B in and tell her formally that A is now her manager and supervisor if she isn't already...and then you support A to manage her. Done properly (which you will) this will have one of two outcomes....either B will settle down and b (ha) have or you will manage her out the door. either way it will be good learning for A and (dare I say it?) for you too.
Oh Ps you might also want to start to put supervision/complaint/harassment/disciplinary process on file and in place?

I agree......sorry but I do

I agree that you should help A to manage B, and make A"s role clear to B. Leave the wider team out of it. Get them to use email to some extent. Meet the two of them together sometimes.

Something that's not clear to me is how some sniping and sulking between two people if having such an effect on the wider team? Is something not getting done? Is A offloading on them about B, or vice versa? Because in most groups I've worked with there'd be eyerolling, but not this drama with the others.

You sound very fair minded and I hope you can find a good solution

As you don’t have HR then you should consult an employment solicitor to guide you through this. You’re asking mn for legal advice.

I usually don’t give free advice online but I’m the Head of HR for a massive organisation, have employment law qualifications, am an accreditation mediator, and also a tribunal adjudicator.

I'd have B in and tell her formally that A is now her manager and supervisor if she isn't already

Do not do this.

can I ask why not?

There are no protected characteristics for either of them

Er, wrong. Everyone has protected characteristics, because everyone has a sex, race, age, sexual orientation, and religious beliefs (atheism counts).

If your workplace is overwhelmingly male and middle-aged, it's unlikely that a 45 year old man will be able to demonstrate he has been discriminated against (as an example) but, if your workplace is mainly young women, he certainly could.

So be careful. If either employee has characteristics that are atypical for your particular environment, even if they are not atypical for the UK as a whole, they may well be able to make a case for discrimination.

Because taking someone who has already complained that they’re not getting on with a more senior colleague due to colleague’s attitude and is having her requests for support/meetings ignored moved to report into that person formally is a very fast way to find yourself in a bullying and harassment claim.

B has already told the OP that she feels targeted by A and that A is sneering at her. Not doing anything to address that issue but then putting B in a position where she’s basically thrown to the lions is not a good way to manage this at all.

Thank you for the advice. For those of you mentioning I'm out of my depth I completely agree.
I joined when this was a small business and as it's grown my role has become all encompassing. More and more staff employed.

I'm good at my job, know the business inside out but have had no experience or training in management of staff. This hasn't been a problem until now.

This isn't true. They can be let go within 2 years, probation doesn't really mean anything legally.