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Handed notice in - told to extend notice period or cancel pre-booked leave

55 replies

ProfessorInkling · 10/08/2022 18:52

Can anyone help me to understand if my employer can do this or not?

I have been with the company 4 years. Handed my notice in, one month as per contract. Have a few days leave already booked during this time, about halfway through really.

Have negotiated new start date with new job but today my manager says I either need to extend my notice period for the same number of days as my leave, or have my leave cancelled.

No mention of this in my contract, or in the staff handbook...

Thank you!

OP posts:
Aprilx · 11/08/2022 18:53

SandyY2K · 11/08/2022 18:06

@Theweedonkey

I know it's very hot today and maybe your kids are playing you up too,but no need to talk to me like a cunt. I feel sorry for the people who have to take their HR issues to you if that's your attitude.

You need to own the fact that you made an absolutely ridiculous comment, with no knowledge of employment law or the meaning of a contract of employment and it's contents.

Courtesy is please and thank you. Stuff you do, but you don't have to do. Notice period is not courtesy, it is required on BOTH sides.

I spoke to you like someone who doesn't know what they're talking about..not like a Cu&t.....because you spoke with such a high degree of certainty like you're an authority on the subject, in an area you clearly don't have a clue on.

@SandyY2K

But it is you that is wrong! How can you have worked in HR for 25 years and not know that, so long as they give sufficient notice, an employer can cancel leave, yes even if it is has been approved.

I expect it doesn’t happen very often, because it is going to lead to an unhappy workforce. But they certainly can do it and maybe don’t care too much if somebody is leaving anyway.

By the sound of it, this employer does have sufficient time to legally cancel the leave.

SandyY2K · 11/08/2022 20:12

@Aprilx

But it is you that is wrong! How can you have worked in HR for 25 years and not know that, so long as they give sufficient notice, an employer can cancel leave, yes even if it is has been approved.

No....The pp said a notice period is a courtesy. That is not correct and I'm not wrong there. It's in the contract of employment/ Ts and Cs.

An employee has a contractual right to take annual leave and an employer CANNOT just cancel it (even with notice) , ESPECIALLY if the employee is leaving and that results in them not having the opportunity to take the leave, before the end of their employment.

They may have a better chance IF the employee wasn't leaving and had further opportunity to take the leave...but would need a strong case of why they're canceling the leave. Even if they weren't leaving and had booked a holiday and were going away...it would be unreasonable for the employer to cancel it. Would the employer reimburse the holiday cost? Airline tickets, hotel expenses etc

It's reasonable for an employee to book and pay for a holiday after having leave approved and if they were asked to cancel it...it would make a very strong constructive dismissal case.

I find that employers will often try and tell employees certain things as being policy/fact, especially line managers and those in smaller organisations, who really don't know the law. They do it because employees often think managers know what they're talking about and don't challenge it.

I've had to tell line managers on a few occasions that they cannot demand an employee takes their remaining leave as pay, when they resign, but they can negotiate...ultimately the employee has a right to their accrued leave and UNLESS the employment contract is very specific in saying annual leave must not be taken in the notice period... the employer would lose in an ET.

By the sound of it, this employer does have sufficient time to legally cancel the leave.

This would depend on the annual leave policy.. which must be explicit, otherwise an ET would rule in an employees favour.. This is the first thing you need in defending your case at a tribunal, as well as the leave policy.....which states it can be cancelled with X amount of notice...BUT as I've said, if there is no opportunity for her to take the accrued leave before she resigns... she cannot/should not lose her contractual leave entitlement, as this would result in a breach of contract by the employer.

Organisations can't force people to be paid, instead of taking the time off...However, I know from friends that sometimes their organisations will try it on stuff and hope it doesn't get challenged...99 out of 100 times it doesn't.

I see a few HR issues on here and particularly with manual, minimum wage, zero contract jobs, young staff, employers bank on the fact that they won't get challenged and pull stuff like this.

My daughter had a pt job (she was 16 at the time) and the owner told her she wasn't entitled to annual leave because she was on a high hourly rate. I told her he was wrong and she should get it. He still refused, until I wrote, advised him what the law was ... then he coughed up swiftly.

I just hate to see employees treated unfairly, which a lot of companies do. A lot of what they do, is because they get away with it, not because it's legally permissable.

DuchessofAnkh77 · 12/08/2022 07:14

Yes, I did get legal advice and trying to change a few details! It's done as a contract variation.

Maybeebebe · 12/08/2022 12:56

SandyY2K · 11/08/2022 04:29

@Wotaloadofshit
Regardless of their policy in granting leave during notice period, or whether you have it accrued, as long as your employer gives you notice of the length of leave booked plus one day then they can ASK you to cancel it

I think ASK is the keyword here.

They cannot demand you cancel it and I've been a HR professional for over 25 years and have never heard of an employers right to ask or equest you cancel preapproved annual leave, whether in your notice period or not.

I would certainly be telling a manager they have no right to do it, but they can see if the employee would be flexible about it...bit definitely not something they can demand and have a legal left to stand on.

I've also never seen any policy that days no annual leave during your notice period. In fact most companies would expect you to take any outstanding leave before you go, rather than pay, unless the business or service really needs you to stay.

Holiday entitlement
www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/booking-time-off-

The general notice period for taking leave is at least twice as long as the amount of leave a worker wants to take, plus 1 day. For example, a worker would give 3 days’ notice for 1 day’s leave.

An employer can refuse a leave request or cancel leave but they must give as much notice as the amount of leave requested, plus 1 day. For example, an employer would give 11 days’ notice if the worker asked for 10 days’ leave.
If the contract says something different about the notice a worker or employer should give, what’s in the contract will apply.

Although employers can refuse to give leave at a certain time, they cannot refuse to let workers take the leave at all.

luckylavender · 12/08/2022 18:55

ProfessorInkling · 10/08/2022 19:09

Thanks for the quick replies.

Manager says it’s not policy to grant leave within the notice period.

Notice is one month, plus offer of volunteering on a weekend after notice period ends (my gesture, not managers request)

Leave requested is 4 days and within entitlement. Was booked a few weeks back.

I would question whether this has been the case when others have left during your tenure.

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