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Original poster

Handed notice in - told to extend notice period or cancel pre-booked leave

55 replies

ProfessorInkling · 10/08/2022 18:52

Can anyone help me to understand if my employer can do this or not?

I have been with the company 4 years. Handed my notice in, one month as per contract. Have a few days leave already booked during this time, about halfway through really.

Have negotiated new start date with new job but today my manager says I either need to extend my notice period for the same number of days as my leave, or have my leave cancelled.

No mention of this in my contract, or in the staff handbook...

Thank you!

OP posts:
Original poster
ProfessorInkling · 10/08/2022 19:51

Yes I suppose she could cancel my leave. That would be a little petty, my role is v much behind-the-scenes, I’m really not indispensable.

Well let’s see how it plays out.

OP posts:
MajorCarolDanvers · 10/08/2022 19:57

Remind your manager that you are entitled to be paid for all accrued annual leave that you have not taken. I bet your manager doesn't realise this.

girlmom21 · 10/08/2022 19:59

Is your leave before or after your last pay day? I'd stick it out til pay day then flounce if there's an overlap.

SandyY2K · 10/08/2022 20:03

Is there a written policy that days no leave during your notice period?

If not. And you have accrued this leave, then you're entitled to it and they can't make you extend your notice period.

Whitehorsegirl · 10/08/2022 20:14

If they cancel your leave do they realise they will have to pay you all your outstanding holidays on top of your last month pay?

I would cancel your offer of volunteering and also ask your manager to see where in the company's policy or in your contract does it state that leave cannot be taken in your notice period.

If she is really being unreasonable out of spite I personally would make a point of going off sick for a week and go on holiday as planned.

I had something. bit similar with a charity as well in my last employment. My notice was two months and I asked them if I could take some of my annual leave to shorten it. They knew full well I was leaving because of serious health issues (trauma after an assault which meant I had panic attacks in the office and public transport) and yet they made it as difficult as they could for me. I went off sick for a week and then stated I would work from home the rest of my notice. If employers behave like idiots I don't feel the need to play nice.

Zonder · 10/08/2022 20:24

Definitely explain that she will need to pay you for untaken leave.

SpiderinaWingMirror · 10/08/2022 20:33

What are they going to do? Sack you.
I would stand ground. They would have to cover those days if you stayed.
"Dear Boss. This leave was already approved and is within my pro rata holiday allowance. I therefore will not be at work on x,y,z dates. "

DuchessofAnkh77 · 10/08/2022 21:06

I had a (pretty critical) part-time accountant who asked me for 3 weeks leave (special permission required as over 2 weeks). She was having a special holiday, it was over year end but I signed it off.

One week before the holiday she handed in her notice by email just before 9am on Monday.

By the time I had got through my emails, spoken to some customers, an noticed her email it was Monday afternoon.

4 weeks notice, left her precisely with 2 working days before she left.

There was nothing I could do about it. You can cancel holiday only if you give double the notice of the length of holiday.

She was my accountant, in a smallish business, made all the payments, kept the books and to top it off it was year end, which meant I had do my job, her job and to find a qualified accountant and get a hand over in 4 days. I couldn't find anyone at that short notice and the new hire didn't get a handover, and had to pick up year end completely cold.

Thanks to her, my employees all now have 8 weeks notice and anyone asking for longer than 2 weeks leave gets a legally binding email which temporarily extends their notice as a condition of acceptance of the leave.

Wotaloadofshit · 10/08/2022 21:34

Regardless of their policy in granting leave during notice period, or whether you have it accrued, as long as your employer gives you notice of the length of leave booked plus one day then they can ask you to cancel it, whether you have resigned or not.
So if you jave 4 days booked they have to let you know 5 days before that leave period is due to start that they are cancelling it.

Wotaloadofshit · 10/08/2022 21:36

DuchessofAnkh77 · 10/08/2022 21:06

I had a (pretty critical) part-time accountant who asked me for 3 weeks leave (special permission required as over 2 weeks). She was having a special holiday, it was over year end but I signed it off.

One week before the holiday she handed in her notice by email just before 9am on Monday.

By the time I had got through my emails, spoken to some customers, an noticed her email it was Monday afternoon.

4 weeks notice, left her precisely with 2 working days before she left.

There was nothing I could do about it. You can cancel holiday only if you give double the notice of the length of holiday.

She was my accountant, in a smallish business, made all the payments, kept the books and to top it off it was year end, which meant I had do my job, her job and to find a qualified accountant and get a hand over in 4 days. I couldn't find anyone at that short notice and the new hire didn't get a handover, and had to pick up year end completely cold.

Thanks to her, my employees all now have 8 weeks notice and anyone asking for longer than 2 weeks leave gets a legally binding email which temporarily extends their notice as a condition of acceptance of the leave.

Just FYi that email you get then to sign isn't legally binding unless it is written into their contracts when they start, as it is a material change to their terms of employment and notice period.

SandyY2K · 11/08/2022 04:29

@Wotaloadofshit
Regardless of their policy in granting leave during notice period, or whether you have it accrued, as long as your employer gives you notice of the length of leave booked plus one day then they can ASK you to cancel it

I think ASK is the keyword here.

They cannot demand you cancel it and I've been a HR professional for over 25 years and have never heard of an employers right to ask or equest you cancel preapproved annual leave, whether in your notice period or not.

I would certainly be telling a manager they have no right to do it, but they can see if the employee would be flexible about it...bit definitely not something they can demand and have a legal left to stand on.

I've also never seen any policy that days no annual leave during your notice period. In fact most companies would expect you to take any outstanding leave before you go, rather than pay, unless the business or service really needs you to stay.

SandyY2K · 11/08/2022 04:36

Just FYi that email you get then to sign isn't legally binding unless it is written into their contracts when they start, as it is a material change to their terms of employment and notice period.

Absolutely.

I'd be interested to know if she got legal advice on this email.
I can't see the email standing up in an ET either.

Realistically, if an employee does leave in this situation, there's little an employer can actually do.

Even when an employee gives less than required notice..it's a breach of contract, but the cost of taking this to court would hardly be worth it. And the employee would be long gone anyway.

The worse an employer can do is reflect this in a future reference.

onlythreenow · 11/08/2022 05:19

Leave had already been granted before you handed in your notice, so fuck 'em.

I agree, and after behaviour like that I might be there in person but I would have already checked out in my head and they would be getting the bare minimum of work out of me.

deeperthanallroses · 11/08/2022 05:44

I’d politely say if you cancel my leave you have to pay it to me along with all other accrued leave, and I will be leaving at 5pm on the dot every day until I finish and taking no work home. I’m a person not a machine and I’ve always done my best in this job.

TheWeeDonkey · 11/08/2022 06:56

Are they taking the piss? You work your notice as a matter of courtesy, there's nothing stopping you leaving with immediate effect. What do you do that's so important they can't find cover within 4 weeks?

ImAvingOops · 11/08/2022 07:35

You don't work notice as a matter of courtesy. Most employees have it written into their contract how much they have to give. Not doing so may result in legal action or reference implications

Nuisancepenguin · 11/08/2022 08:07

Personally unless I’d booked to go away for those days, I’d work them but only after receiving written confirmation that accrued
leave would be paid for. I certainly wouldn’t volunteer any further time and no working after hours, not even a minute. Thank goodness you’re leaving OP.

Lilgamesh2 · 11/08/2022 08:13

I'd ask the manager to put her request in writing including an acknowledgment that you will be paid for the annual leave. Then agree to cancel the annual leave.

When it comes to your holiday call in sick.

They'll have to pay you and you still get the holiday. Plus, it'll teach them a lesson about being petty and exploiting employees.

Alphabet1spaghetti2 · 11/08/2022 10:10

I have never understood employers that treat leaving staff like this. The employee has already left - they’ve accepted another job, they evidently do not want to be at their present job, and most likely are already quietly checked out and doing the minimum needed. So why make life difficult? Why ask for extra notice periods? All they achieve are pissing of the employee and possibly more of the current staff and - if people talk about it, potentially anyone who might have applied now or in the future.
In a labour shortage market, surely you should be attempting to retain and recruit staff….
having been shafted by an employer myself - I certainly wouldn’t be volunteering either my own free time or that of my family, to an employer again.

SandyY2K · 11/08/2022 11:08

@TheWeeDonkey

Are they taking the piss? You work your notice as a matter of courtesy, there's nothing stopping you leaving with immediate effect.

I take it you don't understand what a contract of employment is? Have you ever worked before?

A notice period is not a matter of courtesy, it's part of your terms and conditions of employment...I suspect if you've ever worked for a half decent organisation or i deed worked at all, you'd actually understand what that means.

I'm usually not sarcastic, but you saying notice is courtesy is pure and utter nonsense...and having worked in HR for a ¼ of a century, it was annoying to read. If you don't know what you're talking about, you don't have to contribute and give misleading, incorrect information.

Just the same way you wouldn't expect your employer to not give you notice of termination, the same applies the other way round...it's a legally binding contract in employment law...not a courtesy.

TheWeeDonkey · 11/08/2022 16:18

SandyY2K · 11/08/2022 11:08

@TheWeeDonkey

Are they taking the piss? You work your notice as a matter of courtesy, there's nothing stopping you leaving with immediate effect.

I take it you don't understand what a contract of employment is? Have you ever worked before?

A notice period is not a matter of courtesy, it's part of your terms and conditions of employment...I suspect if you've ever worked for a half decent organisation or i deed worked at all, you'd actually understand what that means.

I'm usually not sarcastic, but you saying notice is courtesy is pure and utter nonsense...and having worked in HR for a ¼ of a century, it was annoying to read. If you don't know what you're talking about, you don't have to contribute and give misleading, incorrect information.

Just the same way you wouldn't expect your employer to not give you notice of termination, the same applies the other way round...it's a legally binding contract in employment law...not a courtesy.

I know it's very hot today and maybe your kids are playing you up too,but no need to talk to me like a cunt. I feel sorry for the people who have to take their HR issues to you if that's your attitude.

OP if your contract states you give 4 weeks notice you give 4 weeks notice. Holidays are part of your contract so they are included in the 4 weeks notice.

SarahProblem · 11/08/2022 16:23

If your job is secured, references sorted. I would be inclined to cancel your leave, do bugger all and 'forget' everything in your handover. But I can get petty with stuff like that. Or suddenly find the situation stressful and take the month off sick.

The more grown up side of me wonders if they said why specifically? is there a big handover you need to do or is it peak time (or coming up to peak time or is it just 'policy'? if the latter ... see the first paragraph :)

minipie · 11/08/2022 16:27

Manager says it’s not policy to grant leave within the notice period.

I would ask when you were shown this policy.

If she can’t demonstrate you were given it to read then I’d just say sorry it’s booked and would go anyway.

What can she do… fire you??

SandyY2K · 11/08/2022 18:06

@Theweedonkey

I know it's very hot today and maybe your kids are playing you up too,but no need to talk to me like a cunt. I feel sorry for the people who have to take their HR issues to you if that's your attitude.

You need to own the fact that you made an absolutely ridiculous comment, with no knowledge of employment law or the meaning of a contract of employment and it's contents.

Courtesy is please and thank you. Stuff you do, but you don't have to do. Notice period is not courtesy, it is required on BOTH sides.

I spoke to you like someone who doesn't know what they're talking about..not like a Cu&t.....because you spoke with such a high degree of certainty like you're an authority on the subject, in an area you clearly don't have a clue on.

TheWeeDonkey · 11/08/2022 18:50

OP, it's up to you. Work the extended notice or work within your contract. The worst she can do is sack you.

Good luck in your new role, I hope you get a better boss.