No lunch break. No overtime pay. 45 hour week with expected overtime. WWYD

[Goandplay]

Interviewed for a job paying 10k over the going rate. Negotiated another 5k.

From what I was told on the interview the current team rarely take their annual leave entitlement and work late most nights, with senior members working till 10pm sometimes. Senior members also work most weekends and never take two days off at the weekend.

I was told there was no lunch break but can eat and drink at desk.

The role will stretch me professionally which would be good, giving me experience and a step up.

The office didn’t feel friendly and I was told there is not much chatting on the interview when I asked if I could meet the person I would be working with - which I thought was a strange remark.

Is the additional pay worth the conditions.

New role, they had one person do the role and leave. No surprise really.

Sounds like my previous job, but that was for 25k..lasted 3 months. Now on 21k plus expenses and 40 hrs strictly observed, lunches an hour and overtime if actually worked. The money was nice on the face of it but actually for the hours it amounts to less.

A contract could include an opt out of the WTD rules, in which case, anything goes.

I worked a job like that right out of grad school. I had no children and it was excellent training. I also got paid much more than you will be making at that was 25 years ago. I did the job for 2 years and when I was ready to have a mental and physical breakdown, I had accrued enough experience to get my dream job.

it doesn’t sound like they are offering you the kind of salary premium required of that kind of schedule. Is it the kind of job experience that will net you a significantly better job in a short amount of time?

I don’t think so.

I had another job offer but they couldn’t match this offer. They did try.

Surely a lot of that is illegal?

For less than £50k. No.

Absolutely no chance. I've worked in this environment before. Imagine finishing your 9 hour shift (having had no lunch break) and wanting to get home to see your kids before they go to bed, but you daren't leave because no one wants to be the first to leave and get talked about by management.
As a PP said, if they've been this upfront with you now, imagine how bad it will actually be?
After a few years in this environment I developed anxiety and burn out. Stuck it out for the money but looking back it really wasn't worth it.

Yep this, it would be a fuck no from me with bells on

Honestly if they willingly talk about all these bad things now what are the bad bad things that stay hidden till you start working?

I'd run like the wind.

An extra £15k isn’t worth it for those conditions.

You can always make more money once your children are grown but you will never get this time back with them. You will be ground down in this environment. More money maybe but a significant cost to your health.

Have you actually sat down and worked out exactly how many extra hours you would be expected to work each year? Taking into account no breaks, no lunches, working several hours overtime a day and one whole day every weekend, not to mention their expectation that you don't take your full holiday entitlement. And what about bank holidays - do they expect people to work some of those too?

Hell no!

What's the point of making money if you give up everything that makes life worth living to earn it?

You only live once, and this wouldn't be living.

I take it you don't have a family, to consider taking a job like this?

This is only worth it if you can leverage it for your NEXT job - to maintain that salary level

If you have a VERY stable job history (ie averaging 2-5 years + in jobs and some long stints) then it might be worth a gamble to push yourself up a salary level & then jump ship very quickly (6/12 months) but that only works if you can get that salary elsewhere with the experience this job gives : which it does not sound like

You might erode all the extra income in childcare, food delivery, cleaner etc … not to mention cost to your health

I do think that pushing through can be worth it in various circumstances but it sounds like this company just pays more because conditions are poor and you won’t be able to leverage it elsewhere…

What are your personal priorities for a job?

you can opt out of WTD regarding 48 hour weeks but the rules regarding time between shifts and breaks can't be opted out of for employees unless you have no set hours ie you can work and rest when you want provided work is done
what you describe doesn't seem to fit into that as the hours seem to be set and then some sounds like a recipe for burnout

Nope.

It would be a definite no for me, not so much because of any one "issue" raised but because they seem to have been proudly upfront about all the expected extra hours. That screams to me this company is shit and doesn't care about employees"
To me, no salary is worth that and especially not one that's under £50,000!

Absolutely no. tbh it is not that well paid for the hours they expect you to do. If you work out an hourly rate for the hours actually worked I suspect you it would work out much less attractive.

rarely take their annual leave entitlement and work late most nights, = you are working for free. What would happen if you did take your annual leave?

Absolutely not worth the salary. You can earn £40k much more easily than that!

£150k+, then maybe for a short period to boost your CV before jumping ship

Just read this out to my DH who is a clergyman, and he said, "Or you could take a pay cut and work under those conditions by getting ordained!" We laughed, but alas it is true…

OP, if it's a vocation or something you love, there may be compensations, but it’s a lot of bad conditions for not a huge amount of extra money. Is family life worth sacrificing?

You can work out your hourly rate using expected annual hours

Going rate 30k
Work 9:00 - 17:00

1 hr lunch unpaid
5 days a week
52 weeks a year
[48 work weeks]
[4 weeks holidays]
Ignoring bank holidays
7hr × 5 days × 52 weeks
1820 hrs
£ 16.48

Your rate 45k
Work 9:00 - 17:00
7hr ×5 days × 52 weeks
1820 hrs
£ 24.72 ph

Your rate 45k
Work 9:00 - 17:00to22:00
O hr lunch unpaid
6 days a week
52 weeks a year + 3 free

[48 work weeks]
[3 free labour not on holiday]
[1 weeks holidays]
Ignoring bank holidays
(8hr × 6days × (52+3)weeks
2640hrs
£ 17.04

45k ÷ 2730hrs = £ 16.48

So in addition to working one extra day a week you only need to do 2hrs extra O/T week to earn exactly what you would earn at the 30k

@SolasAnla : this is a fab calculation

Also consider all the additional costs from working long hours (already mentioned but cleaner, deliveries, take away etc - from experience I have needed to spend more on this sort of thing when working excessive hours… not worth it

Why would you even consider this job? Money isn't everything - in fact in the scheme of things it is way down the list. Is it legal to not let people take an actual lunch break? (I'm not in the UK). I'm used to having an hour for lunch in an office situation - no way would I work somewhere you were expected to eat at the desk and I would NOT work late at night, nor at weekends. I would have stated at the interview that it wouldn't suit me, but I work to live, not live to work, and my needs are simple.

Phones ring of the hook in the shipping industry, that's why you never have a lunch break. I know a shipping pallet company took 300+ calls on a busy day back in summer 2018 even before covid hit I lasted 2 weeks before realising I just couldn't do it.

That's why you can't go for dentists/doctors no matter how many hours you put in for some types of businesses. They expect you to give all the hours as if you have no life or are never at risk of going down.