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Original poster

Colleague buggering off home early. As their manager, would this bother you?

410 replies

Marie2022 · 27/07/2022 03:08

I have been in post for a few weeks and have had some problems with one of my direct reports. Nothing serious, mainly of the “Not my job” type of response from her, regarding things that very clearly are her job.

I sent her an email a few days ago at a time when she should have seen it. She didn’t reply. At which point someone said that she wasn’t actually there. The following day I asked her to confirm her hours, which she did.

I have just checked the CCTV for the past 2 weeks and she has been leaving 10-20 minutes early every single day.

Is this a big deal? As a manager, would this bother you? I just want to get some opinions before I do anything.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 28/07/2022 14:27

Spot on, panamera, but I didn't want to make the list too long!!

Panamera22 · 28/07/2022 14:31

puzzled you would have been there quite a while!!! laugh

Panatone · 28/07/2022 14:34

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Andromachehadabadday · 28/07/2022 14:39

How does being rude to the op help anyone in the situation?

does it help op or the employee?

Panamera22 · 28/07/2022 15:51

*Panatone" me thinks the lady protests too much 😉 😂- just try to be a bit kinder to the OP, no need for the vitriol being directed at her.

Totally agree Andro - all it does it put people off seeking help.

Ohthatsexciting · 28/07/2022 16:06

The OP is someone who came on to ask for advice on how to approach an issue in work, I fail to see how being horrible to her will help that? Are you suggesting that the OPs failure to challenge this lady without considering the best way to go about that is bullying?

as I say - many feel the op has been “horrible” to this employee

indeed on the eyes of the law - the OP has actually breached privacy laws.

and her failure to talk with the employee it not “bullying” it is incompetence.

Ohthatsexciting · 28/07/2022 16:08

And if I found out a new boss had watched CCTV footage of me rather than talk to me about her concerns….

i would feel bullied
and I would be heading straight to HR

Panatone · 28/07/2022 16:14

@Ohthatsexciting I’d be heading straight to HR as well. It would be considered a form of harassment in most work places!

Panamera22 · 28/07/2022 16:14

ohthat the OP has not gone to the employee yet about her time keeping, nor has she told her that she witnessed this on CCTV - the employee doesn't know so how can feel bullied by something she is unaware of?? 😕

She literally hasnt had a conversation with her so how has she been horrible to her? She has caught her in essence defrauding the company as she is not working when she is paid to! The OP came on this forum to ask for advice and been attacked for it! I really dont see your point. Is the employee somehow telepathically aware that the OP caught her slouching off and checked the CCTV when she shouldnt have? . 🤔

Ohthatsexciting · 28/07/2022 16:24

I know she hasn’t gone to the colleague yet.

but you said you didn’t think spying on someone on cctv was bullying.

so if she never found out - well she’d be none the wiser.
but if she did - it would constitute bullying.

and what a surprise - of course the Op hasn’t spoken to the employee yet!

the notion that the op has been aggressively attacked on this thread is the post that I dispute. She has been called incompetent and the fact that she breached privacy laws has been roundly condemned.

that is not “aggressively attacking”

Ohthatsexciting · 28/07/2022 16:26

The fact is

if the op went to Hr about this, their jaws would hit the flaw and they’d be drafting their email to legal department next best steps before the OP left the room.

but the email to Legal wouldn’t be about the employee.

it’s subject matter would like be the OP’s name and “unlawful use of CCTV”

Ohthatsexciting · 28/07/2022 16:26

So the op is going to have to keep her dirty secret to herself otherwise she will be sacked

Ohthatsexciting · 28/07/2022 16:28

Panatone · 28/07/2022 16:14

@Ohthatsexciting I’d be heading straight to HR as well. It would be considered a form of harassment in most work places!

Not “some”

ALL

and considering the OP still on probation - she would probably be escorted from the building!

Ohthatsexciting · 28/07/2022 16:36

Marie2022 · 27/07/2022 06:09

The CCTV covers the car park so we could see what time her car was no longer in the car park. I didn’t realise that was frowned upon, so that’s good to know.

Who is “we” op?

and what did you say to the CCTV controller (who would be very up to speed with the law) re why you needed to see CCTV footage?

thing47 · 28/07/2022 16:38

OP said that she had got some 'not my job' type of response from the employee, doesn't that imply that they have had some conversation at least? So now, armed with all our advice, she just needs to address the timekeeping issue – if indeed it is an issue, in some workplaces it would be and some it wouldn't. Only OP can say for certain whether it is in hers…

The CCTV thing was a mistake, which OP has acknowledged, but as long as she doesn't use that information against employee and employee doesn't know then no harm, no foul.

Ohthatsexciting · 28/07/2022 16:40

thing47 · 28/07/2022 16:38

OP said that she had got some 'not my job' type of response from the employee, doesn't that imply that they have had some conversation at least? So now, armed with all our advice, she just needs to address the timekeeping issue – if indeed it is an issue, in some workplaces it would be and some it wouldn't. Only OP can say for certain whether it is in hers…

The CCTV thing was a mistake, which OP has acknowledged, but as long as she doesn't use that information against employee and employee doesn't know then no harm, no foul.

So you’re saying the OP should hide this form of gathering evidence from her employer?

risky considering it would seem she was not alone

Ohthatsexciting · 28/07/2022 16:41

And saying “not my job” does not mean a chat about it

it means the op asked her to do something
the employee responded with “not my job”
And that was the end of discussion

Ohthatsexciting · 28/07/2022 16:53

OP has not gone to the employee yet about her time keeping, nor has she told her that she witnessed this on CCTV - the employee doesn't know so how can feel bullied by something she is unaware of??

something I’d expect to hear from boris

What’s wrong with breaking the law if the public don’t find out about it?

😂

Panamera22 · 28/07/2022 16:58

My role involves alot of dispute resolution, I can assure you that in all my years I have never once heard of HR contacting legal or disciplining a manager for making a mistake regarding an employee which the employee was unaware of.

As for being escorted from the building the only time Ive ever known that to happen (twice in 20 years) was once when the employee was passing very sensitive information on to a competitor and another when an employee was accessing a disgusting site (you can guess what) and the police arrested him. I think it is a reach to imagine that the OP would have been marched out of the building for viewing CCTV. Also, in my experience businesses tend to take the side of the management, HR are also paid by the business to manage workforce, policies etc, they certainly wont highlight anything that may cost the business money in an employment tribunal. Honestly, what sort of businesses are you dealing with where management are terminated and all efforts made to protect employees??? (this just does not happen in my experience - and in some cases it should - just not this one where the OP is trying to be fair to all of the staff and not just won who wants to keep her own hours!).

You dont know what happened today or what conversations the OP has had with the employee. None of us do. As for levels of aggression, being accused of incompetence, of bullying etc, I would find that aggressive.

Oblomov22 · 28/07/2022 16:59

Blimey, this thread is full on. Depends on the job! I think OP has a lot to learn about managing. Alternatively just to give a different view - I do a job, accounts, sometimes I go in early, sometimes I leave early, if anyone ever questioned my timekeeping I'd be furious.

Panamera22 · 28/07/2022 17:01

ohthat are you comparing checking CCTV to Boris' exploits? 😂😂😂. I think you are overreaching there. But it did make me laugh so thank you for the entertainment!!! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

dragonDan · 28/07/2022 17:11

@Panatone you really don't sound like a very nice person. Don't call someone incompetent when you know nothing about them. If OP is new to management then it is new to her and she is asking for opinions. That's how people learn. No need to be a nasty person.

I don't buy the I came in early so can leave early attitude to work. If you're hours are 9:00 to 5:00 you have to be at your desk from 9:00 to 5:00. If you want to come in early that's your choice. If you have to come in early for some reason then this arrangement should be approved by your manager.
So much of this goes on in the NHS. Drives me nuts.

dragonDan · 28/07/2022 17:15

@Ohthatsexciting you sound like an awful employee. Not one that I would want in my team

soupmaker · 28/07/2022 17:23

Absolutely agree with you @Panamera22 I've been a trade union official for decades and the scenario @Ohthatsexciting suggests in her post has never occurred. Probably because they are living in a parallel universe to the real world.

Ohthatsexciting · 28/07/2022 17:26

Panamera22 · 28/07/2022 16:58

My role involves alot of dispute resolution, I can assure you that in all my years I have never once heard of HR contacting legal or disciplining a manager for making a mistake regarding an employee which the employee was unaware of.

As for being escorted from the building the only time Ive ever known that to happen (twice in 20 years) was once when the employee was passing very sensitive information on to a competitor and another when an employee was accessing a disgusting site (you can guess what) and the police arrested him. I think it is a reach to imagine that the OP would have been marched out of the building for viewing CCTV. Also, in my experience businesses tend to take the side of the management, HR are also paid by the business to manage workforce, policies etc, they certainly wont highlight anything that may cost the business money in an employment tribunal. Honestly, what sort of businesses are you dealing with where management are terminated and all efforts made to protect employees??? (this just does not happen in my experience - and in some cases it should - just not this one where the OP is trying to be fair to all of the staff and not just won who wants to keep her own hours!).

You dont know what happened today or what conversations the OP has had with the employee. None of us do. As for levels of aggression, being accused of incompetence, of bullying etc, I would find that aggressive.

Have you heard of a scenario whereby an employer has carried out something illegal?

if HR failed to go to Legal, HR would be under fire for hot doing so if it emerges

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