Work refusing to let me leave

[Summerreid]

This has happened twice now where I have needed to leave during the day and work have refused, saying there is no one available to cover (secondary school teacher.) Just wondering if anybody knows what my legal position is.

I worked in local govt for 20 years. we werent able to leave work during the day either unless some sort of life/death type emergency. same for my dh he worked in industry. he wasnt allowed to do this either. if you have children you have to make arrangements for this type of scenario I am afraid. if its happened twice already then its hardly a one off. had your child been so ill/injured they were taken to hospital then fair enough but not just because they felt ill. very few employers would allow you to do this. Either the school holds on to them or you need to buddy up with a friend/family member/neighbour whereby they help you out during term time and you help them out during school hols. Its not just those who are teachers who are affected by this, its going to be most of the working population who have children. another of the harsh realities of being a working parent.

So what happened when you didn’t leave to collect your DC? Did the school or person looking after your child kick them out onto the streets?

Next time just say you’ve got the shits and need to leave now.

The fact of the matter is, if you have no backup, some careers aren't suitable for you. That's the reality. As a parent, I understand that. It's why I'm not a teacher!

What did the SLT member say when you asked permission?

What if it's OP that's ill or gets injured during the day? Will cover magically appear? How will the school manage? Can she leave then or should we expect her mangled corpse to still deliver an outstanding lesson ?

Two of my SILs when they were nurses working in hospitals doing shifts use to use friends. My brothers worked too far away from their kids schools.

My own mother used the lady who took me to school until I was about 9. Then it was any person normally a relative in their late teens/early 20s who she could find.

Why is it always you? Where is their dad?

School can't legally detain you, but I imagine if you walked out after they said no you'd get a disciplinary of some sort.

This is utter shit if you can't go and pick your unwell child from school.....you must always be there for people kids and can't be there for your child??
I works in the healthcare sector and God forbid if there is an emergency that my child needs me I will be there...will deal with work when I return....
Not everyone have friends and family support at their beck and call.
I will be looking for another who understands that I am a parent first!

This might help?

www.gov.uk/time-off-for-dependants/problems-when-you-take-time-off

Yes, unfortunately that is how it goes. DH stopped classroom teaching because whilst the holidays were great for families, term times are unrelenting and deeply family unfriendly. It was fine when we didn’t have DC but now we do, it doesn’t work. I can’t always be relied on to pick up kids if there is an incident as I travel away for work and one of us has to be around. Thems the choices when you decide to have children (or have a failure of contraception as we did)…

They can't use it against you for promotion or refuse reasonable time off. It says to try contacting ACAS.

Quite possibly, knowing some SLTs!
You have to alert someone and emergency cover is allocated, usually SLT or someone free.

But a child vomiting is not an emergency. That's a very routine occurrence that you should have a plan for. A child in hospital, yes, drop everything, please. A kid with a tummy bug? That's not an emergency, it doesn't need to be you, you should have someone lined up.

OP, you are not unreasonable and school is. Forget the nonsense about you should have back up in place. This is just impossible for some people.

There is a massive shortage of teachers and they are leaving in droves. This shit is what makes them leave. To the PP saying they would be angry that their children would be left without a teacher, why do your children’s needs trump the OP’s?

It is down to the head to sort out cover.

OP, I would take the time to look after your child. Jobs come and go, your children are the most important thing.

Jesus Christ some of these replies are brutal and others just unrealistic!
Ask a friend to pick up an ill child? Would you be willing to bring someone else's vomiting/uncontrollably pooing kid home? I wouldn't!

I'm a teacher and there should be a clause in your contract or in the burgundy book rules re: time off for dependents. This may be unpaid but you have a right to time off to look after your children.
In our school if someone needs to collect their poorly child they can - management have to cover, or we'll move staff around, merge classes temporarily etc.

I also imagine the child's school don't have the staffing to sit and look after a poorly child all day.

If she has to leave due to injury it's an emergency and obviously there will be cover.

Oh you just reminded me that as a teen of 16 I went to hospital with a friend to collect her younger brother who was injured at school as her parents couldn't leave their jobs.

Someone else may be along with more experience in education but:

They can't physically stop you leaving, if they say no and you stay then that's you choosing to stay.

If they say no and you go, then you're taking an unauthorised absence/AWOL/gross misconduct and can lead to warnings and/or termination of employment.

From the schools point of view, your dc and lack of childcare are not their problem but the well-being and education of their pupils is.

Yes, you get a carer's allocation of paid time off, but mostly it's unpaid.

Actually..I did think that but this seems to suggest it doesn't have to be a life threatening serious emergancy:

www.gov.uk/time-off-for-dependants/whats-an-emergency

I wish! When I return from Maternity leave for my second child, my childcare bill will be £2400 a month. And whilst yes, I am very lucky that I earn (just enough) to cover this it leaves me with pretty much nothing at the end of the month, despite working 55 hours most weeks.
However, I guess by the logic of many posters on here I shouldn’t even be a teacher now I have my own children as my mum has cancer and is too ill to do childcare, my dad works full time, my MIL lives 100 miles away, all BIL/SIL live over 60 miles away or work full time and all the friends I would trust to look after my children are themselves teachers or work for the NHS. So through a series of events (some tragic) which I have no control over, I should leave my career at a time when retention and recruitment are at an all time low, just on the off chance that my husband is unable to pick up the children when they are sick one day?

Christ, all the boards are getting as aggy as AIBU. Do posters just sift through ‘trending’ and let rip, regardless of where something is?

It actually sounds like a really difficult situation, OP, and I’d find that hard to deal with and worrying, especially at pre-school age. I’m sorry. It would put me off being a teacher as it’s just nearly impossible to manage, when you know you’re going to have it occur. Children get ill and you can’t have backup childcare on hand every day just in case. I feel for you.

So who got them?

What did you do last time when your DC were sick and you couldn’t pick them up?

Have a look at this link:

www.gov.uk/time-off-for-dependants

and the legislation:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18/section/57A

which says the following:

1)An employee is entitled to be permitted by his employer to take a reasonable amount of time off during the employee’s working hours in order to take action which is necessary—

(a)to provide assistance on an occasion when a dependant falls ill, gives birth or is injured or assaulted,

(b)to make arrangements for the provision of care for a dependant who is ill or injured,

(c)in consequence of the death of a dependant,

(d)because of the unexpected disruption or termination of arrangements for the care of a dependant, or

(e)to deal with an incident which involves a child of the employee and which occurs unexpectedly in a period during which an educational establishment which the child attends is responsible for him.

(2)Subsection (1) does not apply unless the employee—

(a)tells his employer the reason for his absence as soon as reasonably practicable, and

(b)except where paragraph (a) cannot be complied with until after the employee has returned to work, tells his employer for how long he expects to be absent.

(3) Subject to subsections (4) and (5), for the purposes of this section “ dependant ” means, in relation to an employee—

(a)a spouse [F3or civil partner] ,

(b)a child,

(c)a parent,

(d)a person who lives in the same household as the employee, otherwise than by reason of being his employee, tenant, lodger or boarder.

(4) For the purposes of subsection (1)(a) or (b) “ dependant ” includes, in addition to the persons mentioned in subsection (3), any person who reasonably relies on the employee—

(a)for assistance on an occasion when the person falls ill or is injured or assaulted, or

(b)to make arrangements for the provision of care in the event of illness or injury.

(5) For the purposes of subsection (1)(d) “ dependant ” includes, in addition to the persons mentioned in subsection (3), any person who reasonably relies on the employee to make arrangements for the provision of care.

(6)A reference in this section to illness or injury includes a reference to mental illness or injury.]

speak to your union rep x