Boundaries when in a senior role?

[Llamasally]

I’m starting a new job soon, from one large corporate to another at a similar level but sector change. I want to really set my boundaries from the start having got into some unhealthy working patterns before and causing myself health problems as a result.

I find this very difficult, more so when the salary is high and amongst some colleagues there is competitive overworking. I think it does stem from a lack of confidence in my abilities and being worried about being seen as uncommitted etc. But I know now from my years of experience I don’t work at my best or enjoy my life when I’m maxed out with relentless work. I also want to set an example, which I have struggled to find role models for myself, for other women and my own children that you can have a life, be present for your family and be successful in a senior career.

Anyone who is good at this have any tips?? I know a few in my current place of work who I hugely admire and still seem to do well and are respected. This type of role is - probably like most - the type that is full on and could fill any amount of time you give it!

Hopeful bump!

I have taken on a global position in my late 50’s. I have told my boss that I will work my hours, but at the end of the day I switch off work and onto a million other things I need to deal with. I am very specialised and very experienced, they will absolutely get their money’s worth out of me, without me doing silly hours, she knows this.
Obviously, if there is a genuine crisis then I will do what is necessary to get that crisis resolved, she knows that too.

@MintyMoocow can I ask how you approached that conversation and how it went?

Also, set your limits early, if people know you are not there after 5, then they will work with that. If you work until midnight for a year and then pull back they will resent you for it.

My husband has a hard stop at 5:30. No more meetings booked in after that time. He then stops work at 6 and goes to the gym. If absolutely necessary he logs back in later to finish off. But he just focuses during the day. (Of course in an emergency he will adapt.) But his colleagues know his routine. As he works hard and effectively during his time there no one (as far as I know) questions him on this.

He is modelling work/life balance to his teams. Which is part of company culture too. And part of him being a role model. (He would never expect his teams to stay working while he doesn't.)

(I on the other hand are rubbish and always want to do a bit more or finish one more thing.....) LOL.

She agreed that a life work balance is important and that she was fine with it.
But she sort of has to say that, she herself is a workaholic but we’re doing alright so far.

The worst scenario is where you are in a team working all hours and you are the first one to pull back, lots of resentment!

I need to work on this myself. I am in the public sector so not with the high wage but still doing way over my work hours. I had some coaching recently - planning and organisation were areas for improvement. I wasn’t using my diary as well as I could and was a bit reactive. So this has helped somewhat. Also my boss said to me that if I died they would just get someone else to do my job. He meant this kindly in an attempt to stop me from overworking. I was very ill last year so this is a real possibility. Life is too short. I also think those other people you are looking at as successful probably have imposter syndrome too but they are hiding it!

Congratulations on the new role!
I never email in the evenings, weekends or during leave unless an emergency/Super urgent. I turn my email app off on my phone during leave.
I think it's essential to switch off properly and my company gets the best out of me when I'm refreshed.

On the other hand I work really hard 0900-1800 and usually a couple of hours at the weekend too. But that's ok with me.

You will have in your head what you can do in a day to keep things balanced - just do that.

Put your home commitments in your diary (even as private appointments) and always keep your calendar open so your staff can view it. That way people can see that when you have ‘stopped work’ you haven’t actually stopped - you’ve gone to do something else.

I do this myself (well I’m on mat leave at the moment but in usual circumstances)

My ways around it are:

• blocking out my diary to actually finish at whatever time so that I can do the nursery drop off / pick up and actually add that in itself to my diary so people can see where I am


• respond to urgent stuff on my phone with a one liner that I’ll address it in the morning


• set clear project deadlines from the outset and never promise to do something if you can’t


• don’t feel pressured in to someone else’s poor time management and deadlines

I think it’s also really important to be visible in what you’re actually doing and set decent standards for your own team. I want my team to feel supported in flexible working - I don’t care when they get work done as long as it’s done. So I don’t mind people leaving for 90 mins over lunch for a gym class as long as deadlines are met. I think then it’s important to show that you do the same and people don’t feel like they’re secretly being judged while the boss is still doing a hard 7-7 day.

I'm not in a high powered job, but I do think this applies at all levels. I used to work over all the time, but when I had my son and went back to work I suddenly had an immovable time that I had to stop work by so that I could collect him from nursery.

What I found is that the world didn't end if all the work didn't get finished by the time I left, it was still there when I got in the following day. People don't appreciate all the extra time you put in, it just becomes something that you are expected to do and it's really hard to stop once you have started!

Of course there will be occasions when you need to just get the job done, but I would pick your finish time and block out your diary for the half hour previous to that so that you can't have meetings and that you always have half an hour at the end of the day to finish off emails etc and then make sure you leave when you should. It might be quite hard to start with but should become a habit. They pay you do to a job and as long as that gets done, the rest of the time is yours and they do not own you! You can not do the job if you are burned out

In my experience it's best if you are the example- complete focus during your working hours and then a hard stop, make sure that your team are doing the same. Don't reward doing more hours. If it's necessary to do in an emergency, make sure the hours are taken back at a later stage.

@ShirleyPhallus I suppose that’s what I’m worried about a bit. Where I am now there is a real culture of it, it’s hard to go against the grain. And I don’t know if the other organisation is the same yet…so I may come in with this approach and everyone be slagging off my lack of hours behind my back! Which I suppose is a risk I need to take.

Yep, you need to rise above it

A “bums on seats” presenteeism culture is really dangerous for burnout and productivity and should absolutely not be encouraged.

Work smarter, not harder should be your motto!

similar to other PP I do a lot of calendar blocking

one thing I am trying to do more of is really think about what has to be me, what could be not done at all, what can be delegated and also make sure I am clear with myself what are the things that drive the biggest impact

one of the leaders I work with definitely doesn’t sweat the small stuff, he really focuses on what is going to be most important and it reminds me I need to work hard at that vs just being “busy” - as being busy is easy

Never, ever apologise. So not, “Sorry, I’m finishing at 5.30 today but I could look at it this evening.” Instead: “I have a hard stop at 5.30 daily. I’ll pick this up with you in the morning – I’m online from 8.30am.”

I make use of horrible corporate wank speak like “hard stop” because my nature is to be “oh! Sorry! Yes! People pleaser!” and burn myself out so to keep my boundaries I almost play a role at work, and I’ve decided my work character says things like “hard stop”.

That’s my other tip: work you is not the whole you. I’m fundamentally against “bring your whole self to work” because it’s the flip side of “make work your whole life”. Bring your work persona to work, your Sasha Fierce, and act how they would act.

Another colleague’s favourite line is “I do not have capacity for this until [date].”

Turn phones and reminders and emails off out of office hours. Either have a work phone you can switch off, or if you use your personal phone, DON’T put Teams and Zoom and Outlook on it, still less work WhatsApp groups. If you WFH, shove your laptop in a cupboard and lock the door when you’re done for the day. Go for a walk or a fauxmmute to set the boundary. When you’re done, you’re done. I don’t think you have to put your real life in your work calendar to show that when you’re logged off you’re doing other things: when you’re logged off, you don’t exist! Very few jobs in the world are actually important enough that you’re needed out of hours.

I don’t work long hours (with a few notable exceptions) - I just can’t focus and be productive for 12h straight.
I’m sure it’s limited my career progression a bit, but I still reached a mid-senior position in my thirties so can’t complain.

What I do to set boundaries:
Always finish on time, even if no after work commitments
Block diary and never accept out of hours meetings
I never apologise if I can’t make an out of hours meeting/stay late - some stock phrases: “Unable to make this time”, “I have a clash with another commitment” etc

I’m especially never apologetic for daring to have children - I bat away after work drinks and socials with - “I’ll be doing the nursery run”, “I have caring responsibilities” etc. I think senior women need to normalise and model balancing career and being a mother.

People can't slag you off for not working long hours if you get everything done that's expected.
I'd therefore not be signing up for a workload beyond that. Sure work extra when there is an emergency, but be very careful to differentiate between a genuine and manufactured emergency.
Ultimately though if the culture is long hours, it's hard to push back against it. I'd try to make it work by carving out time in the middle of the day.

Position it as part of your personal brand and that it's something that's good for everyone (which it is(. For example

I value people and their fully rounded lives. It makes us all more productive when we are fully rested. That's why I don't answer emails at weekends, end I encourage my teams to do likewise.

Holidays are very important and as we are a big team, it's hugely important that we support each other in enjoying our time out, so we need to step up and cover for people on holiday and make sure they are left in peace. I delegate when I'm off and expect you all to do the same.

Also consider putting something in your email signature re your working hours, and upcoming holidays. I had an old customer who said something like 'as I have a family and need flexibility occasionally I will answer an email at odd times, or late at night but I don't expect you to respond straight away '. It was a roundabout way of saying I'll do it when it suits me. Quite smart

Lead by example, proudly.

The modern work place is more task focussed then hours focussed. So have that in mind. If you can prioritise your tasks and get them done in working hours then more fool the others doing so many more. Also ditch the comparison. Worry only about feedback from line manager. The peers will be at different points in their careers and different home set ups meaning they work differently. You do you.

Manage your diary tightly. Don't feel obliged to accept all meetings. Or certainly not in the first slot asked for. Personally i cannot function without two hours a day when not in a meeting. Otherwise by the end of the day i am a zombie and stop retaining info or capturing my actions. So, its about knowing if i do attend i want to be useful and engaged. To be effective in a senior role you need time to think and be strategic, not only be on an endless list of low level operational tasks that lets be honest is never complete. I also had an epiphany that male colleagues decline meetings often when they are maxxed but i was so worried about being polite or disruptive that i wouldn't put my own prioritised workload first. Your work is an important as anyone elses-believe it.

Take regular breaks. Dont be a martyr.

Use electronic tools. Trello for actions and to do lists with columns for today, this week and this month. Onenote is useful as you can search it and put files related to the topic in there.

Actually I'd love a boss like you @catwomando .

I'm relatively senior but don't manage anyone. I like my job, but there's a real culture of long hours and holidays seem quite frowned upon with no formal holiday backup in place so I've always had to work long hours before and after any break.

It's such a shame as i like it otherwise, but I work to afford holidays so I may have to move on.

@rookiemere awww, thanks. If there's no formal holiday cover then devise your own (and train your customers by managing their expectations). With my customers I'd do a pre and post holiday meeting to make sure all ducks were lined up and it gave them confidence.
You may well find a new matching soulmate (or willing PA) to cover emergency stuff once you raise it as an idea. After all its give and take. They may actually like the idea of a holiday for themselves in peace, or where you only call them of the world stops spinning.

Having back ups in business for signatures and in the governance model is crucial and part of any robust risk management. You might want to use that as a lever too 'if x gets hit by a bus, who signs off her stuff?' You can then use this as the holiday plan too as cover is naturally in place as part of the governance model.

Trying to change a culture alone is impossible, so you can only look after your own bit, lead by example (even if you don't have a team) and never apologise for working /delivering what they pay you for.

Seriously though, make a virtue out of it. Seek out some credible reports/evidence on work life balance and be prepared to quote them to any idiot who may challenge. These days corporations spout on about people and work life balance and rare,y put money where their mouth is. That's your job.

You'll rock it. And within months your colleagues will start to follow because they'll see how appealing it is, and how productive you are.

This is all such great advice- thank you! I need to copy and save all this…

Yep - in a similar position here, having got a very senior role recently and having had terrible working patterns myself in previous roles, so am determined to help set the culture myself and be a positive role model!

I've asked that 2 x days a week I don't have any meetings booked in after 5pm - on those 2 days I do stuff in the evenings, so they are an absolute no. Other days I'll do meetings until 6pm-ish (and I tend to start between 7.30am - 8am) but I won't work later than 6pm and I won't ever log on over weekends.

I don't email colleagues other than my boss in the evenings and only then if it's urgent/important that she sees the message before the next morning - only happened once so far, 4 months into my role.

I've had positive comments from a couple of colleagues who have seen that I work differently to my predecessor, who was brilliant but worked evenings and weekends - probably the rest are thinking I'm a total slacker, but I'm staying firm and not caving in!

Having said all that, I work in the NHS and did work 100+ hours a week from December - March on a separate Covid-related project that needed urgent 7 day cover - but that was different...!!

So, my advice would be to set your parameters early - if you have a secretary, agree with them when your last meetings can be booked in. Don't send emails to colleagues in the evenings/weekends unless you absolutely have to. Role model for everyone below you - they'll appreciate it - and when push really does come to shove and you need for some reason people to work over and above, they will because it's been OK for all the other times!