Quite sure there's nothing I can do but

[ninnynonny]

I have just left a job I loved after 6 years. I literally walked out at the end of a day last week and sent my resignation.

In a nutshell, I have 21 years experience in this sector and have been passed over for promotion 4 times i the past two years, each time to someone younger, less qualified and much less experienced.

It's very clear that senior management don't like me but I have, at all times, acted professionally around them and my colleagues. To rub it in, this promotion was a new post, suggested by me to do, to help in one particular part of the organisation, but it was turned down last year. The person who got it, is a particular favourite who started wingeing about overtime being cut and how were they going to earn more money. Suddenly the job reappears, them and me were interviewed and they got it. They don't even fulfill half the criteria. Is there any way at all I can get some kind of recognition that this is unfair treatment.
The post before went to someone 30 years younger than me with 1 years experience.

I get I may be coming across s bitter and twisted, but I really am good at my job and know (as everyone does) that I could do both of these (and the previous two) easily.

I have left now and really don't want to return but I feel they have 'won' and I'm really cross.

I know there is no evidence for Constructive Dismissal but is age discrimination even slightly possible?

@Hexen you sound fab - see @ninnynonny there are good management about. Often women now I think about it. 

Alas @ninnynonny being more senior does necessarily mean you get listened to! I once offered my job to someone excellent I managed (so I could move sideways) and they backed away in horror.

Should have gone into pies.

@ninnynonny you should lovely and I'm really quite invested in you getting a great job now!

Good luck!

Sounds like you are mentally ready for that move upwards then, it’s just a question of showcasing what you can do, and mopping up the gaps.

can you remember what the other questions that you didn’t do so well on were about? As in the broader category?

Because that’s what I would work on.. to stretch my analogy to breaking point, one of my questions asked about key pieces of legislation governing ‘bakeries’ because a manager needs to know all the legal pitfalls. Vera filled a whole page Indy notes telling me about the background and detail of the 1922 Pie Fillings Act, but looked like a rabbit in the headlights when i asked about the 1974 Sausage Rolls at Work Regulations.

The perfect answer would actually have been, ‘we are governed by the 1922 act, which covers pies, AND the 1974 regulations for sausage rolls. Both of these are listed in the Bakery Code of Practice, and that was updated last year‘. If you then could have told me a little about what they both meant for us in practice, that would have been full marks. (Which is what Barry did do)

All that extra detail Vera gave me didn’t really gain her much, because all I asked for was an overview, but an overview of ALL the important legislation, not just one part. She very much gave the impression that the sausage roll stuff wasn’t on her radar. Barry, on the other hand, knew about both, but in less detail. However he emphasised how important they both were , if we were to operate legally. And how he’d ensure our sausage roll expert would be consulted if we made any changes.

Vera left me with a strong impression that the sausage roll stuff was just a lot less important to her. And I would have had concerns that If I’d have put Vera in charge, without a lot of extra training and a lot of oversight from me, she might have missed something important in the sausage roll section and risked investigation by the Sausage Roll And Safety Executive. Which is a bloody scary thought TBH.

Bakeries have just got so much more interesting!!

@Lougle 🤣

Thank you @Shannith , and yes, I’m now very invested in the OP succeeding!

it does make me wonder though, if there is a case for more management mentoring in my area. Especially for women. I do a lot of work with new starters, and with the pool of prospective candidates, aiming to inspire people into a career in ermmm … baking. And I know we lose some great women mid career, when they stall and can’t progress.

hmm.. thank you OP. I have a lot to think about.

can you remember what the other questions that you didn’t do so well on were about? As in the broader category?

There were no broad questions at all. Every single one was related to his job (yes a younger man!) I tried to relate them to mine (they are similar but also very different) but clearly didn't manage.
Anyway, I will keep you update about my progress with the interview! It's next Thursday 😃

Ah, that’s a pile of wank then if it was too specific to extrapolate.

You sound very together though. and I’d certainly say you can claim to be exceptionally good at taking on feedback about yourself. Which is a fantastic thing to have.

good luck!

Well that’s all very well but I bet Barry gets paid a shit ton more than Vera. If it wasn’t for Vera’s pies Barry wouldn’t have a business to be boss of.

Op, using the very excellent Vera analogy, you say you tried to relate the questions to your role as they fitted his, however was there no way to relate them to the role you were going for?

it would be unusual for them to interview you in relation to your current role, it would have been more the questions should be answered in relation to thr role you were applying for.

in interviews you don’t often talk about what you currently do, unless it’s a sideways move, what you do is apply the learnings of the current role or your wider skillset and apply it as an answer as what you would do if you were in the promoted role. The answer should normally apply the role you’re interviewing for not the role you have.

I'm so much better than I used to be!
All I'm really sad about it is that I have had to say goodbye to some people I have been helping for several years and I'm worried about their progress. However, I had to make a choice for me. Thanks so much for your help and advice. It's been brilliant. That's to everyone!

Not in our organisation, no. It’s about the same as the OPs situation; £2k pa

in this specific case, I’d actually say that the extra shit Barry has to pick up, plus the potential for having a level of legal liability, the promotion actually isn’t worth the money on its own. However if he wanted to progress, or move sideways it’s a great stepping stone. (When I was at a similar level, I used mine to zigzag into a role I did want)

and equally, whilst Vera’s pies are amazing, she can’t bake them without ingredients, there’s no point baking them without customers, and no one can bake pies if the business is closed down for legal violations. So Barry’s role has responsibility for far more of the operation than Vera’s. She just has to churn out pies. I oversee a whole bunch of Barrys so he needs to be on the ball enough to keep the operation going, and have enough knowledge know what he DOESNT know, and then flag that to me.

Sorry, that was to @Tlollj

not saying the disparity isn’t unfair elsewhere though. But we are a broadly fair employer. (Which is why I haven’t moved on…)

Well I personally think good on you OP for not putting up with it anymore!
I hope you find a really great new job where people value your skills & experience 💐

Thank you! It was hard to do but I feel quite a sense of relief. Cross, but relieved!

Ninnynonny - I hope all goes well for you next week.

Thank you!! I will update

Just to update...I had the interview for the other job this morning and got offered it this afternoon!!
I'm extremely happy 🙂

@ninnynonny I haven’t read the whole thread but it’s a bit similar to something I’m going through. Don’t tie yourself up in knots, some places are just toxic and run by clueless managers that are blinded by a certain face or personality. They’ll come undone if you’ve taken a raft of experience with you so just file that away and concentrate completely on you.

Also they do sound a bit toxic so think this why would you ever want their approval? Be glad for who you are and the work you’ve done and close the chapter. Easy for me to say and going through something very similar. I hope you’re okay tonight.

Ooh saw last post congrats!! New chapter :)

@ninnynonny What @Shannith is saying is be a manipulative scheming, fake, wouldn’t piss on you if on fire, sociopath. Not you, op? Nah, not me either.

Good luck in your new job. 💐

Thank you. Getting this so quickly and getting such lovely feedback (and the post of course!) has finally made me 100% realise I am fine, I am, and always have been really good at my job and they have lost out on someone who could actually have been a real asset. Sod the lot of them!!

Brilliant news OP! Well done!

@ninnynonny oh that is fantastic - well done you. I'm so pleased for you. Well done - I reiterate that you sound thoughtful with a great attitude and you'll be a real asset to any company.

I hope it's everything you hope for and you really enjoy it.

And err @Thecocklednoseandstinkyblowhole I'm not sure explaining how some management decisions are made - whether they are fair or not - makes me a sociopath.

And understanding what good looks like in a business and deciding if that fits with your view of what good looks like makes you sensible. Because if there is a mismatch it's probably not the right company to work for. As the OP discovered.

Never been called a sociopath before. I'll add it to my CV