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Original poster

S/o I manage asks me to sign off on her mitching off work

64 replies

Folicky · 26/04/2022 14:58

I manage someone who writes ambiguous emails to me which I need to approve as her manager. The bit that she's trying to slip in is usually not given centre stage, indeed you would often not know that it is the subject of the email. I might reply, yes that's okay only to find out that something that has incidentally been mentioned actually give her the licence to be off work for a few days allegedly working on it. It I try to clarify the request, I am accused of being autistic. If I pull her up on not covering her workload, she says I'm overly conscientious. I would say I do like to do a good job but that I don't overdo it and I'm not a perfectionist. I'm a big Prieto principle, FlyLady adherent. Any advice for dealing with this skiving and vexatious complaints if you try to manage it. It's maddening and having a serious effect on wellbeing and my family life, not the substance of my job, this bullshit. I trained somewhere else and that is definitely part of the picture here

OP posts:
glamourousindierockandroll · 26/04/2022 15:52

OP, I understood your post perfectly despite not having heard of mitching.

A good comprehension tip for posters is to read around the unfamiliar word to see if you can pick up other clues from the text, such as "off work" and "license to be off work for a few days".

OP, i think your colleague is rude and unprofessional.

Original poster
Folicky · 26/04/2022 15:53

Also, I think I have posted this twice. I entered this on a PC and it told me I had timed out. HR are useless, depending on who you speak to they contradict each other. The big bosses have no appetite for handling this. This is across all professions, so it can't be terribly unique. I have "a pair" thank you, the problem is the issues are not looked into in any way. Anyone been there?

OP posts:
girlmom21 · 26/04/2022 15:55

What are you doing to manage her?
What's your line manager like?

TheEnemy123 · 26/04/2022 15:57

If she's not doing what's required and she's then trying to turn it back on you as her manager when you pull her up on it, surely it's time to start disciplinary procedure? You can give a warning or perhaps put her on a performance improvement plan? You can't be expected to just take blatant insubordination.

DefiniteTortoise · 26/04/2022 15:57

Agree, I understood too. She is chancing her arm and insulting you when questioned.

mudgetastic · 26/04/2022 15:58

So you are saying you don't read her emails properly ?

If you feel it's ambiguous you reply

" I agree to ( very unambiguously) x y z. Was that all? "

Original poster
Folicky · 26/04/2022 16:00

girlmom21 · 26/04/2022 15:55

What are you doing to manage her?
What's your line manager like?

LM is very variable and forgetful (she has a big remit to be fair). Sympathetic to whomever has talked to her last. Efforts to get her to look at emails risks looking detailed. I sent her one good example, that my colleague lied to us both about, but she's forgotten about that.

OP posts:
SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 26/04/2022 16:02

Then, as of today, you challenge her every time she says something like that. Every time.

And you continue to read every email with a fine tooth comb and, if she pops back with something you missed you say no, loudly, repeatedly, copying in anyone you think might want to know.

And ask HR about proper disciplinary, improvment plan, managing out etc.

How long has she worked for the company?

She doesn't get to insult you with impunity
She doesn't get to take you or your employer for a ride

Shgytfgtf111 · 26/04/2022 16:03

If I'm reading it right, is the person emailing you about some work they need to do and then just slipping in that they need to work on it from home for a few dayears rather than the office rather than a leave request? If so:

  • make sure you fully read her emails before replying and say no if she wants to work on it at home if you dont want her to
  • pull her up when she undermines you, 'yes I am conscientious, it's my job'
  • actual leave requests need to be in a separate email with an appropriate title

If she makes complaints about you, make sure document and keep everything.

girlmom21 · 26/04/2022 16:04

Ok so what are you doing to manage this woman?

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 26/04/2022 16:09

As her manager, you need to just manage her.

"I find your email queries quite vague, and feel I am unable to properly understand what you are asking me as you are very vague. I have added this point into your Appraisal, as a development area, and would like you to look for a course you can do online which may help improve this - I will sign off on the cost"

However, if your direct report is using the term autistic to you, as a criticism, regardless of whether you are or not, then she needs an actual warning here. Verbal or written I'm not sure. This is clearly inappropriate!

Willowkins · 26/04/2022 16:13

Just say: Of course - as soon as you have done A, sent me B and reported back on C.

Shgytfgtf111 · 26/04/2022 16:15

You could always just reply to her emails along the lines of 'yeah thats great if you would work on that project but you don't need to be at home to do it, you need to be here'.

If she doesn't come in she's awol.

The other thread you started said she doesn't answer calls or emails when supposedly wfh so she needs to be at work where she is reachable. If she insults you by saying you are too conscientious or something, it doesn't change what you have told her, just repeating that she needs to be in work.

AProperStinging · 26/04/2022 16:18

glamourousindierockandroll · 26/04/2022 15:52

OP, I understood your post perfectly despite not having heard of mitching.

A good comprehension tip for posters is to read around the unfamiliar word to see if you can pick up other clues from the text, such as "off work" and "license to be off work for a few days".

OP, i think your colleague is rude and unprofessional.

How would that help to understand I'm a big Prieto principle, FlyLady adherent. ?

LittleMissMoggy · 26/04/2022 16:21

Shgytfgtf111 · 26/04/2022 16:03

If I'm reading it right, is the person emailing you about some work they need to do and then just slipping in that they need to work on it from home for a few dayears rather than the office rather than a leave request? If so:

  • make sure you fully read her emails before replying and say no if she wants to work on it at home if you dont want her to
  • pull her up when she undermines you, 'yes I am conscientious, it's my job'
  • actual leave requests need to be in a separate email with an appropriate title

If she makes complaints about you, make sure document and keep everything.

This. Make it clear that leave or wfh requests come in separately. You can also respond in your emails by summarising what you are agreeing too, rather than just "yep". Eg "I've not fully digested your email, but agree with points X y z."

AlisonDonut · 26/04/2022 16:23

This definitely sounds like you need to actually manage her. Rather than let her manage you.

Ferntastical · 26/04/2022 16:24

Could clarifying the category of absence help?

e.g. I'll be at home because I need to do [some vague prextext]...

You: That's probably fine but can I clarify if you are requesting annual leave, requesting unpaid absence or something else?

LaMarschallin · 26/04/2022 16:34

AProperStinging

How would that help to understand I'm a big Prieto principle, FlyLady adherent

It's a fair point.
I guessed "someone" for "s/o"; have come across the term "mitching" (although only in the context of minor school truancy), and have heard of "FlyLady". The latter is a house cleaning schedule, basically, but it starts out with the principle of not being too much of a perfectionist: your house didn't get this way quickly; it won't get organised quickly. Organise it in baby steps.
"Prieto principle", though, has me flummoxed. Didn't come up on Google. Perhaps some business speak?

Sorry, not helpful to you OP, except maybe there are general communication difficulties in the organisation you work for. A lot of the above advice sounds useful to me.

Enb76 · 26/04/2022 16:35

As others have said you're really going to have to manage her from here on in.

Every vague email I would write back with a very clear email of what you think she has said, ask for clarification of any point of which you are unsure and not sign off anything on which you are unclear. Ask her if she thinks she would benefit on going on some sort of communication course as her communication is not precise enough for business use.

Any insults I would pull her up on as unprofessional in the extreme and tell her that any further instances will be registered with HR.

Pulling her up on her workload is your job, you're not being overly conscientious, you are doing your job. I would stop trying to be any sort of a friend with her because she will take advantage of that - you are her line manager not her partner in crime.

If it carries on this will get you into hot water and not her. Be a little less kind!

AProperStinging · 26/04/2022 16:40

LaMarschallin · 26/04/2022 16:34

AProperStinging

How would that help to understand I'm a big Prieto principle, FlyLady adherent

It's a fair point.
I guessed "someone" for "s/o"; have come across the term "mitching" (although only in the context of minor school truancy), and have heard of "FlyLady". The latter is a house cleaning schedule, basically, but it starts out with the principle of not being too much of a perfectionist: your house didn't get this way quickly; it won't get organised quickly. Organise it in baby steps.
"Prieto principle", though, has me flummoxed. Didn't come up on Google. Perhaps some business speak?

Sorry, not helpful to you OP, except maybe there are general communication difficulties in the organisation you work for. A lot of the above advice sounds useful to me.

Op's post as a whole was extremely opaque and confusing.

Might not be relevant if she was posting about her gas bill or a health worry, but in the context of problems with clear, unambiguous written communication, I think it probably is.

AlisonDonut · 26/04/2022 16:45

LaMarschallin · 26/04/2022 16:34

AProperStinging

How would that help to understand I'm a big Prieto principle, FlyLady adherent

It's a fair point.
I guessed "someone" for "s/o"; have come across the term "mitching" (although only in the context of minor school truancy), and have heard of "FlyLady". The latter is a house cleaning schedule, basically, but it starts out with the principle of not being too much of a perfectionist: your house didn't get this way quickly; it won't get organised quickly. Organise it in baby steps.
"Prieto principle", though, has me flummoxed. Didn't come up on Google. Perhaps some business speak?

Sorry, not helpful to you OP, except maybe there are general communication difficulties in the organisation you work for. A lot of the above advice sounds useful to me.

It is the 80/20 rule. Pareto.

WhereWasThatFrom · 26/04/2022 16:45

What sort of organisation is this? Yi think I understand your posts but your thoughts seem all over the place?

LaMarschallin · 26/04/2022 16:46

AProperStinging

Op's post as a whole was extremely opaque and confusing.

I agree - I meant that you were making a fair point.

It was sheer coincidence I'd come across some of those terms (but not the P Principle thing).

Suspect now that I didn't communicate that very well 🙂

DuchessSilver · 26/04/2022 16:49

LaMarschallin · 26/04/2022 16:34

AProperStinging

How would that help to understand I'm a big Prieto principle, FlyLady adherent

It's a fair point.
I guessed "someone" for "s/o"; have come across the term "mitching" (although only in the context of minor school truancy), and have heard of "FlyLady". The latter is a house cleaning schedule, basically, but it starts out with the principle of not being too much of a perfectionist: your house didn't get this way quickly; it won't get organised quickly. Organise it in baby steps.
"Prieto principle", though, has me flummoxed. Didn't come up on Google. Perhaps some business speak?

Sorry, not helpful to you OP, except maybe there are general communication difficulties in the organisation you work for. A lot of the above advice sounds useful to me.

Presumably "Prieto principle" = Pareto principle. Although I'm not sure that provides any more context...

AlisonDonut · 26/04/2022 16:51

Although I'm not sure that provides any more context...

No it does sound like the OP has been on one management course and just took one theory away with them.

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