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Original poster

2 formal grievances both line managers.

33 replies

Lennybenny · 07/02/2022 20:28

Will try not to drip feed. I'm a POC. Old man boss = sexist, Homophobic language, racist issues, Misogynistic tendencies. Issues with others but hasn't been pulled up on it in at least 5 years. I've been there 2. His boss knew about all the issues and still gave me the job putting me into a well known by everyone else situation.... I felt I had imposter syndrome so put up with a lot and obviously financially I can't just quit and also have been in lockdown for most of the last 2 years. So now after having had an issue that I decided was enough, it ended up going to boss's boss who had no idea apparently which I think isn't quite true and to HR. HR agree there's been harassment and bullying and want to figure out the next step. I could go informal but it would be a bad environment to work in either way and won't change old man boss as he's past retirement so very stuck in his ways.
It's a very well known workplace so if I go formal it could possibly go pear shaped for me but the issue really needs dealing with. I believe I have grounds for Formal as there's witnesses to some and evidence of others. But am I prepared for this? I am looking for another job but I need to do some online training to get to a better financial position and job.

OP posts:

KatherineJaneway · 07/02/2022 20:30

What would you like to happen?

Ted27 · 07/02/2022 20:35

Not really sure what you are asking but very sorry you are having to go through this.
I"d guess you have many colleagues hoping you take this on.
Do you have sufficient evidence and or people prepared to stand up as witnesses.
In an ideal world your grievance would be upheld and the evidence would be such that he would have to face a hearing for gross misconduct. He must have broken many HR policies.

Soontobe60 · 07/02/2022 20:36

As a retired teacher who still works, it’s quite offensive to think people of retirement age are set in their ways and can’t change.

Isonthecase · 07/02/2022 20:39

I'd make sure you get your evidence written up right away and that includes written statements from the witnesses. Then raise the issue with HR and give them a chance to do something before you go nuclear. If you can be seen to be reasonable first you're more likely to get hr on your side, but you still have the option to escalate if needed. What resolution would you like?

Ted27 · 07/02/2022 20:40

Went too soon there.
I wouldn't go informal myself, in the long run it won't achieve anything.
So you either let it go and get a new job as soon as possible or you challenge him - it won't be pleasant.
Do you have a trade union ?
one thing I would make sure of now is never be in a meeting with him without witnesses and any meetings about this issue should have a minute taker.
Good luck

Original poster

Lennybenny · 07/02/2022 20:41

@KatherineJaneway

What would you like to happen?

I really have no idea. Sometimes it's a great place to work and sometimes it's a nightmare and I have to force myself through the door.

OP posts:

Original poster

Lennybenny · 07/02/2022 20:43

@Soontobe60

As a retired teacher who still works, it’s quite offensive to think people of retirement age are set in their ways and can’t change.

That's what you got from my post? I personally think if a man has been a Misogynist for at least 5 years in his current workplace, he's unlikely to change when he's several years past retirement age.

OP posts:

Ted27 · 07/02/2022 20:47

@Soontobe60

This sounds like a bit more than someone being set in their ways. Racist, sexist, homophobes who have been bullying people for years do not suddenly change their views if someone dares to challenge them

StarsAreWishes · 07/02/2022 20:48

@Soontobe60

As a retired teacher who still works, it’s quite offensive to think people of retirement age are set in their ways and can’t change.

Surely it’s not ageist to accept that if someone has been racist, misogynistic and homophobic for presumably 50+ years it is unlikely that they will find it easy to change their ways just because HR says so.

I’m not exactly a spring chicken myself, but I can certainly empathise with OP on this point.

Original poster

Lennybenny · 07/02/2022 20:50

I have some evidence from a former colleague. I have documented some of the issues and sent it all to HR. They're following it up and hopefully getting back to me this week.
It will be interesting to see how they resolve it. I don't know if my other boss documented any conversations I have had with them and will or can hand it all over to hr. No union though. I suspect an internal investigation will bring out a lot more evidence but its very much a male environment and I'm under no illusions that old man isn't well used for his skills and I'm a junior member of the team.

OP posts:

Wolfcub · 07/02/2022 20:53

I think I would explore with HR what informal resolution looks like. If it's informal on the same team or within the same broader management chain then I think you're right that it won't work but I think you need the full info on what is available to you.
Have you got union representation? If you haven't yet it might be worth seeking their advice and perhaps also talk to ACAS
None of the above is to say you shouldn't take it formal, it sounds like he's inappropriate and you have the evidence. But, the process will be draining and hard and you may not get the outcome you want. I'd be sure you're prepared for it to be bloody difficult before you start. If you decide to take it forward I wish you the best op

heelforheelandtoefortoe · 07/02/2022 20:56

Join a union, to give yourself extra protection should it go further. They can talk you through your options too. Even if your workplace doesn't recognise a union, you can still join one.

Original poster

Lennybenny · 07/02/2022 20:58

Thank you. I think informal works for now having read the pp. I've looked into our grievance procedures. I'll also look at other options such as acas so I can at least figure out covering my back and making sure I still have a job for now.

OP posts:

Ted27 · 07/02/2022 21:15

Whatever way you go has its pros and cons.
I'm a former 'TU rep, I know how difficult it is to challenge these attitudes.
Good luck with whatever you decide

daisychain01 · 08/02/2022 04:25

After working there for 2 years, I'd start looking at the jobs market and try to find yourself a way out. Informal grievance seems reasonable but the problem will never get fixed, it sounds like a toxic work environment that you're better off away from, than trying to fix the unfixable. Waste of effort imo.

KatherineJaneway · 08/02/2022 07:36

My advice would be informal, at least to begin with. I had an issue with someone I worked with and went to a senior manager and said politely and professionally 'either you deal with her or I will' I.e. take out a grievance. They knew how bad it would look if I did that so she was spoken to and her behaviour towards me improved.

Even informal can go sideways so be prepared. He is a senior manager and while they could use this information to push him out the door, they could also try and protect him and move you.

TwoBlondes · 08/02/2022 08:00

I had a similar situation, but mid range sexual harassment. I repeatedly tried the informal route but kept being "boys will be boys, but I'll have a word with him". Once he realised they weren't going to do anything, he got worse.

I then followed the formal grievance procedure whilst looking for another job. I won and was told in writing he would be dealt with. Unfortunately, a witness overheard the HR manager tell my director they were just pretending to get me off their back as I was leaving anyway!

I went through the tribunal paperwork and they wrote out a large cheque the day they received the paperwork.

I wouldn't have had a leg to stand on if I hadn't proved that I had tried to resolve the situation formally.

Good luck, it's not easy ☹️

Original poster

Lennybenny · 08/02/2022 11:27

Mine is some sexual harassment plus a few other issues. I have also had the its just "john", that's how "john" is. "John" has always been like that conversations. It's a very well known issue in the whole place I work. Most of my other colleagues can't believe I'm still there but unfortunately it was a jump in wage so I'm stuck here.

I'm waiting on HR to review and my other boss to submit his notes. I'm not sure how long they give as a time frame though but I'm hopeful for the end of the week.

I'm applying for jobs but can't seem to get the right language to get past the application form.

OP posts:

Hunderland · 09/02/2022 01:28

Two notes of warning (been through the process but for different reasons):
1.) Because there were witnesses doesn't mean they will stand up for you, most people do not want to rock the boat
2.) If you haven't already joined a union I'd forget that - it'll be too late (fingers crossed you already have done)...

DoubleChinWoes2 · 09/02/2022 01:41

I work in HR and don't understand the process your being advised.

If someone has investigated this and found there to be evidence of bullying/harassment then it shouldn't be your decision about whether you agree to informal action or not. They have a responsibility as a reasonable employer to discipline the individual formally. If they've already investigated and are upholding your grievance, the onus is no longer on you to decide what action should be taken. They need to review whether policies and procedures have been contravened (which with harrasment they will have done) and take disciplinary action against the individual.

Harassment is likely to be considered gross misconduct and the termination of his contract an option. If they follow a fair process and have evidence of the wrongdoing, there's not much risk to the organisation even if they've worked there so many years.

NiceTwin · 09/02/2022 01:46

What is a POC?

DoubleChinWoes2 · 09/02/2022 01:48

Person of colour

Original poster

Lennybenny · 10/02/2022 21:29

@DoubleChinWoes2

I work in HR and don't understand the process your being advised.

I think they're investigating. HR has spoken to my other boss. But I haven't heard anything. My evidence is an email from me stating various incidents. I have another email from the previous person who has backed up that and more in her statement. I sent an email today asking what's next but haven't heard anything. My other boss hasn't even spoken to me about it but plenty of others know how the department works. Even if I do leave it will just pass on the issue to someone else. They won't want it out in public.

OP posts:

MrsWobble3 · 11/02/2022 10:14

I’m sure your situation is horrible and do not disbelieve you but I do think you need to think carefully about what you want to happen. You need to be really clear about the outcome - do you want an apology or a settlement? You may not have a choice but if you want to keep working there you don’t want to make things worse. I don’t disbelieve you but you should be aware that your ‘evidence’ - an email from you - isn’t really evidence, it’s an allegation. The supporting witness statement is much more important, but only if the witness is prepared to stand firm and as others have noted this isn’t always the case.

SeasonFinale · 11/02/2022 10:19

If you do complain whether informally or formally about his misogyny etc I would however you stop with the ageism as that could be considered as serious. "old man" , "past retirement age" etc.

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