Tell me not to resign

[Itonlymakesyoustronger]

Good morning people.

Holding myself back from resigning this morning, im a employee who is always on time, and works without sickies etc. however after 4 years of working in my work place I requested for half a day working at home as I cant get child care cover for my son. However manager agreed and said that's all fine. then comes in this morning saying change one of your working days instead, to which I said I cannot as this week my childminder has got Covid so I'm really struggling for child care. He then goes this is the last time something like this happens and I wont tolerate it in the future. WTF?

Please tell me I am not been unreasonable for asking for literally 2.5hrs to work from home after all these years?!

@EarringsandLipstick

Would you rather make your staff want to leave for the sake of 2.5 hours? I work in a public sector role so there are clear rules around this. Yes, I would. I would do it myself. You can't work & mind a small child.

If an employee asked to work from home for another reason, where they could actually work, that would be fine.

It's completely unreasonable to state you do not have childcare for a small dependent child and expect to be allowed to work at the same time.

So do many of us and have done this several hundred times during many isolations.

I’m al for flexibility but it’s totally reasonable to expect someone to take leave rather than ‘work from home’ if the child involved is a toddler because no one can work while caring for a two year old so in reality you’re just asking for time off but labelling it wfh. Which is the kind of crap that gives wfh a bad name and makes people think it’s skiving.

But why? It's 2.5 hours. Does it really matter? Would you rather make your staff want to leave for the sake of 2.5 hours?

In my industry we’re timesheeted with every hour of the day billed to a client/project. Which client would you bill for the time that the boss has generously said ok don’t work?

It would be totally reasonable to ask the OP to take the time as leave, being given it to ‘wfh’ aka watch her toddler, is generous.

A PP talked about being refused wfh time to look after her two year old and thought it was unfair because her manager had wfh when her 15 year old was isolating. There is a VAST difference between the ability to work with a two or a 15 year old in your care. I’m astounded that some people need that pointing out!

Please can we stop using wfh as a synonym for looking after my toddler? If you don’t have childcare you either take time off or arrange to work flexibly ie accept no work will be done while child is around and catch up the same hours in the evening.

@Getyourarseofffthequattro but it was done out of necessity, not because it’s a good set up. And in most cases neither the work nor the childcare was done effectively or well. It was an emergency situation and it in no way means that going forward people should be able to insist they can care for children while working ‘because I did it during lockdown’. If anything lockdown proved how badly it goes when people try and do both things at once!

[quote TrufflesAndToast]@Getyourarseofffthequattro but it was done out of necessity, not because it’s a good set up. And in most cases neither the work nor the childcare was done effectively or well. It was an emergency situation and it in no way means that going forward people should be able to insist they can care for children while working ‘because I did it during lockdown’. If anything lockdown proved how badly it goes when people try and do both things at once![/quote]
This is necessity though isn't it?

2.5 hours is different to a whole day. You can work and keep a toddler occupied for a short period of time. Nobody is saying go home and don't work.

@EarringsandLipstick

because of 2.5 hours of working from home.

But that wouldn't be the reason. She's asking to work from home AND take care of a toddler.

Most people would make sure work is done. Even if it means working in the evening. During lockdowns I worked around my child's waking hours and if she was settled doing an activity then I would work then. This is for 2.5 hours, it is so, so petty for a manager to be like this. It erodes any goodwill from an employee point of view and when extra stuff needs to be done or unpaid overtime is required do you think staff members will step up? No, they won't, and like the OP this company will lose a good member of staff over 2.5 hours. It will cost them a lot more to recruit new staff than the 2.5 hours it would cost them with this staff member.

As much as I believe employers should show flexibility I also understand that some will not or cannot, as it results in others asking and using it as a precedent. Some roles they will not permit to be done from home.

Personally in this instance I took holiday, it’s not right your manager is a bully though so you potentially need to start to look for alternate employment. I assume you work part time and that’s why he said change your work days?

To be fair though if it’s just this week as you say. And your husband has taken the week off to care for your son, and it’s just this one meeting it’s unclear why you can’t change your work days? Since your husband will be there to care for your son?

Agree with the majority that wfh with a toddler is not sustainable on a regular basis but all of us with toddlers have childcare provisions in place. When looking at the last 18 months where so many have been forced to do it with no alternative, it seems very short sighted to make a fuss over less than half a day (assuming work gets completed)

Of course it is not possible in all industries and roles to wfh when this happens but OP is in a role where it clearly can be done so it is pointless to state that your role doesn't allow it for a specific and valid reason as that does not apply to OP.

If goodwill is given for a short period of time, this tends to be returned in volumes by the employee. My manager is extremely flexible and when I had to take an hour out for a last minute medical emergency for my child, I worked more than 3 hours later than evening to make up for it and ensure that no deadlines passed. Treat employees well and they will go above and beyond for you.

My previous manager was very difficult over little issues like this - she would happily ask for me to change things around when she needed help but when the situation was reversed, the answer was usually no with a feeble excuse. Not allowing me to wfh for just 2 afternoons when my toddler's childminder had covid and we were in the middle of a lockdown so no alternative childcare arrangements were available was the final straw. I had even timed it so my wfh hours coincided with his nap (I said there would be absolute minimal impact on work and any remaining hours would have been made up after bedtime.) I gave up and found another job with flexibility - 9 months on and they have still not found a replacement for my old post and she is picking up the pieces in terms of workload.

Most jobs don't involve splitting atoms at Cern...I think it's about control and 'managers' wanting to be seen as important otherwise if they aren't micromanaging people... what are they being pair to do?? Usually they don't know more than the staff in lower ranks (unless it's a professional job where qualifications and experience really matter). It's about being 'jobs worth'.

2.5 hours does seem a very short time to make a fuss over, however, I strongly suspect, despite OP's angry denial that it is much more than this. No one would say "this is the last time ..." if it was the first time??

As for a Dickensian approach, as much as the world would be a nicer place if we all thought pink and fluffy - that parents should be allowed full flexibility to care for children whilst still holding down a full time role, reality is that far more take the Mickey and give working parents a bad name. Along with the stigma of WFH turning into a skive due to this attitude.

In my experience, and that's all I can talk about with any conviction, the reality of the workplace is that managers/bosses, etc don't think parents can WFH whilst also looking after a child who is not in childcare. They want a parent to have sufficient childcare in place to not impact on their working day - or those of the employees colleagues. You can beef it up all you want on this thread of like minded people but that's my reality.

"They want a parent to have sufficient childcare in place to not impact on their working day - or those of the employees colleagues.*

Go on then, suggest a solution?

Employers don't need a solution - it's not their problem.

Employees - don't take a job you can't do if you don't have a backup childcare plan?

@newwifewatnumber10

Employers don't need a solution - it's not their problem.

Employees - don't take a job you can't do if you don't have a backup childcare plan?

Oh dear.

She did have a back up, didn't she? She had childcare in place and a back up. And if she took leave she would also be inconveniencing her employer.

There is no solution, you know there is no solution.

I feel sorry for your staff.

What was the backup? Her childminder has Covid, that's option A. What's B?

The solutions are in black and white above your post. Do I need to repeat?

I feel sorry for your employer.

@newwifewatnumber10

What was the backup? Her childminder has Covid, that's option A. What's B?

The solutions are in black and white above your post. Do I need to repeat?

I feel sorry for your employer.

Her parents, then her husband. I'd suggest you read the thread properly.

You haven't offered any solutions.

You don't need to feel sorry for my employer, I don't have any issues, neither do they. Just like all reasonable employers it's give and take.

I have a very current example of why WFH with children doesn't work.

Last week I was arranging and attending a meeting with a trusted supplier. The meeting was on Tuesday. On Monday at around 10am I was informed of a situation that meant it would be more helpful if the supplier could slightly alter the location of the meeting. All local not a massive change but it would be very helpful for plans. I called the supplier's admin three times, and sent three emails throughout the day. No response by 5pm so we decided to go with the original plan and work around it. At 9am on Tuesday admin eventually responded apologising that although she was WFH she was also looking after her child and hadn't logged on!! This inconvenienced our time hugely and has had a detrimental effect on her employer as if they don't have a robust admin support we're unlikely to choose them as our preferred supplier. Admin support is very important to get right and despite some admin thinking they are unimportant I totally disagree. This parent should have been available as it was within her working hours.

@newwifewatnumber10

I have a very current example of why WFH with children doesn't work.

Last week I was arranging and attending a meeting with a trusted supplier. The meeting was on Tuesday. On Monday at around 10am I was informed of a situation that meant it would be more helpful if the supplier could slightly alter the location of the meeting. All local not a massive change but it would be very helpful for plans. I called the supplier's admin three times, and sent three emails throughout the day. No response by 5pm so we decided to go with the original plan and work around it. At 9am on Tuesday admin eventually responded apologising that although she was WFH she was also looking after her child and hadn't logged on!! This inconvenienced our time hugely and has had a detrimental effect on her employer as if they don't have a robust admin support we're unlikely to choose them as our preferred supplier. Admin support is very important to get right and despite some admin thinking they are unimportant I totally disagree. This parent should have been available as it was within her working hours.

That's not really comparable is it? This is 2.5 hours and we have no idea what ops job is.

It is entirely comparable - you're just picking and choosing.

@newwifewatnumber10

It is entirely comparable - you're just picking and choosing.

It's not at all. This is 2.5 hours not full days.

Employers who turn down reasonable, infrequent requests from good, reliable employees are daft IMO.

As I've said picking and choosing. If her employer needs to get hold of her in the 2.5 hours and she's unavailable it doesn't matter if it's 2.5 hours or 7 hours as in my example.

How many times are you going to say I haven't offered solutions. It's not my problem to offer solutions. Employers' don't need to as it's not their problem. Employees should have enough available childcare to look after their children when their usual childcare is not available.

My staff are very happy thank you. They are treated well in all respects and they don't take the Mickey.

@newwifewatnumber10

As I've said picking and choosing. If her employer needs to get hold of her in the 2.5 hours and she's unavailable it doesn't matter if it's 2.5 hours or 7 hours as in my example.

How many times are you going to say I haven't offered solutions. It's not my problem to offer solutions. Employers' don't need to as it's not their problem. Employees should have enough available childcare to look after their children when their usual childcare is not available.

My staff are very happy thank you. They are treated well in all respects and they don't take the Mickey.

But why would she be unavailable? I've never been unavailable in this scenario.

I don't believe you for a minute. Nobody would be happy with a boss who says "tough shit not my problem should have got more childcare than 3 different options"

She literally does have what you think she should have and it's not good enough. You're on a different planet.

Just because your employee's don't openly tell you how utterly shit it is being treated like that doesn't mean they aren't thinking it. I don't know a single parent who wouldn't be pissed about that and rightly so.

It’s really hard to comment when we don’t know the manager’s side. Likelihood is they’re being unnecessarily annoying. That said, I’m a bit baffled by the poster who compared her boss working from home with a 15 year old for 2 weeks to wanting to have regular wfh with a toddler. Not at all comparable and shows a total lack of understanding from the employee of she thinks it’s the same. As an NHS manager in a hospital, I’m not allowed in work if dc have tested positive for covid. I worked from home in those circumstances with my 13 year old home. She left me alone to work and made me the odd cup of coffee… does your toddler do that?!