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Finally I'm a manager but how can I be a really good one?

60 replies

Metabigot · 29/10/2021 19:40

So I've finally landed a management job, I'm in a professional services role and after many years working as a consultant/advisor I'm now managing a team of people doing my old job.

I've had some really bad bosses in the past who either micro managed me which I absolutely hated, or lorded it over me to show their 'boss-ness' or just generally treated me like shit. I resolved never to be that kind of boss. I'm fairly confident in my team that they want to work and can do the job, but i want to be a supportive boss and coach them to improve where they need to develop etc. What are the dos and don'ts of being a great boss? I'd be interested to hear both from those who are bosses and those who have experience of shit/brilliant bosses.

OP posts:
MagentaRocks · 30/10/2021 10:31

Be consistent, but also flexible. Not everyone’s circumstances are the same.
Don’t micro manage but know how your staff work. Don’t wait if there are issues, address them straight away.
Any negative feedback needs to be constructive. Are mistakes unusual, is there something going on that has led to this.
Know your staff. I know if mine are having a difficult time without them having to tell me.
Be approachable, even if you are busy if a member of staff asks to speak to you, agree. Don’t tell them you are too busy.
Understand their work and the pressures they are under. Help if you can.
Be friendly, but not overly friendly and don’t be obvious if you have favourites.

Rainbowqueeen · 30/10/2021 10:35

Don’t play favourites. Who gets leave when can be an issue. Make sure you have good fair policies in place.

There’s an online forum called “ask a manager “ that you could have a look at for specific issues

Taswama · 30/10/2021 10:36

Talk your team up to your boss.
Talk your boss up to your team.

You should deal with the majority of issues with your staff without needing to involve your boss. I half-jokingly say to my team that their job is to make me look good, but I will make a point of telling my boss when they've done a good job with something.

Try not to criticise policies coming from above in front of your team, even if you don't wholly agree with them you still need to enforce them.

Listen to your team and encourage them to discuss problems amongst themselves and come to you with solutions.

WhatsitWiggle · 30/10/2021 10:43

Ask each person how they like to be managed, some people will prefer a more hands-on approach.
Give regular feedback - catch people doing something good and tell them. Regular, specific feedback is the most motivational.

elonmusk · 30/10/2021 10:44

I suggest reading Radical Candor. It's a really helpful framework for giving feedback. In my experience managers shy away from it but most people really want it (when it's done well). Giving feedback and setting clear expectations.

TheSunIsStillShining · 30/10/2021 10:53

I've been in managerial positions (up to managing international teams of 50+ across 3 continents) as well as consultant -low level- jobs.
Imo opinion what makgs a good manager:

  • the manager is there to organize and help. I got promoted last week from bottom of the food chain to the absolute top. My first questions was: how can I help? What do you/your team need to succeed?
  • be personal. not on an emotional level, not being friends - but know a few bits about everyone and follow up once in a while. How's your training for the marathon going?/How is your kid?/blabla....
  • be transparent and available. always.
  • communicate. In every new position (I do a lot of contracting) I set up a comms schedule. Who to have weekly 2 catch ups, weekly one, which teams need more/less supervision. What regularity to communicate project updates to all/parts of the team. Follow through with these. Eg. I have a monthly "newsletter" usually about how we are doing overall.
  • be fair and open. You can't please everyone and it is not your job to be their mum. But you are like a mediator many times.
  • be clear on goals and if goalposts change (in software industry this happens all the time) communicate it. And the reasons as well.
  • I personally don't like to fraternize too much, but others do. It's more a personality thing. But I do have at least 1 monthly lunch with team if they are in the same area/office/country. If not then set up a coffee chat every 2 weeks for the team if needed.
  • personal thing: I make personality assessments of all my team in my head, or jotter. Try to get a feeling of who will be most probably a problem point and see if I can do something to prevent it happening. I do this instinctively. So the same with the clients.
  • and back to the first point: organize everything clearly :) The team will be really grateful for that.
  • manage expectations both up and down..

In my current position I work with teams in 2 countries. 1 is HQ of a company and I am lead for them, but the "client" is the subsidiary in another country. It is imperative to be aware of cultural issues. "Client" is very eastern europe and is a rigid hierarchy. We spent 3 months trying to convince them how a new software and process will benefit them. A buy in team is always better. Waste of time. At the end of the day we had to escalate the hell out of the issue - CEO told them you have to do it. In 2 weeks we have done 2 month's worth of work. Now we have a similar position - after 3 tries we went to the top. Otherwise we would never get anything done.
And the funny thing is that I would expect resentment and not working, but because of the cultural background people on "client" side are actually happier: now they don't have any responsibility over what will happen as it was not their buy in that made the project happen, but a higher up decision. With the burden off for responsibility they are cooperative and doing their jobs. Just weird. But have I not talked to my equal counterpart on their side over a virtual beer I wouldn't have known how to approach and might have gone more rounds of convincing and wasting time and money.

Fordian · 30/10/2021 10:58

Don't give the person who takes the piss, rocks in late every day, patronises the female staff, repeatedly does things their way despite multiple warnings - the same career opportunities as the diligent, hard working, caring person.

It pisses your staff off. They want to see you dealing with the former's behaviour, not rewarding it; or, before you know it, the latter will begin to slacken off and skive as they will see there are no negative consequences.

Run ideas past experienced, trusted colleagues, even if they are subordinate to you, especially if they are older and more experienced. Otherwise they will laugh as you make the same mistakes as the previous boss. Remember, many would have been given your job, had they applied.

Delegate. Don't try and do everything for fear of appearing to 'not be in control'. You'll do everything badly.

Zenithbear · 30/10/2021 11:02

I am a manager and I have had amazing and terrible managers in the past.
Never ever lie especially to cover your own arse. No one expects anyone to be perfect and get everything right.
Always give people credit for their brilliant ideas and never try to steal the credit from someone else.
Basically you need integrity, honesty, a calm approach, be clear with instructions, never over manage but don't lead from behind either. Be a friend but never gossip about anyone. Xx

Fordian · 30/10/2021 11:09

"When saying thank you for a job well done be specific in telling them what you are thanking them for."

A good point.

I'm a front line HCP.

I often feel patronised by my inexperienced, younger boss 'thanking me'- as in her job, her success metric is pretty much purely quantity. Mine errs towards quality. I don't get rewarded for throughput, she does. And, in promoting quantity, quality slips.

I don't like being thanked when I know I've done a sub- par job as I pride myself in doing my best.

I'm not stupid, I know there are time pressures at work here, but we're HCPs. There are human beings and their health at stake here, so recognise that if I've thrown 45 people through a system built for 36, I've cut corners thus you being praised by your line manager for your team's 'productivity' doesn't translate to me feeling particularly proud of my corner-cutting.

Allsorts1 · 30/10/2021 11:42

@JorisBohnson2 this is a great book on the topic that I highly recommend - how to not micromanage but still provide feedback and support. The idea is radical candor and it’s a great philosophy www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/books/kim-scott-msn-fnp-ae-c/radical-candor-be-a-kick-ass-boss-without-losing-your-humanity

Allsorts1 · 30/10/2021 11:44

Oops that link didn’t work! Book is “radical candor how to be a kick ass boss without losing your humanity” www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/books/kim-scott-msn-fnp-ae-c/radical-candor-be-a-kick-ass-boss-without-losing-your-humanity/9781250103505?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyLWAifnx8wIVGLLtCh2yfw4BEAQYAyABEgKmyPD_BwE

TinyTroubleMaker · 30/10/2021 12:05

Can give some examples of what not to do

  • don't complain / talk about the deficiencies of one team member with other members of the team behind their back
  • say the same to your staff faces as you do behind their backs
  • if you have a problem with one of them handle it openly and directly by all means but fairly, don't use barbed criticism in front of other team members, or covert passive aggressive undermining of them with other staff
  • if you have staff with health issues etc in place they probably need more support than others. That's part of the job, don't criticise or resent them for it or emphasise to them how much extra you're having to do for them
  • don't try to prevent or threaten their progression out of the role just because it serves you better if they stay
  • don't hint that you'd much prefer the option to fire staff immediately where they under perform, or say how annoying you find all the HR measures in place to protect them
  • don't just like and reward the staff you have who are most similar in their thinking and approach to you
Metabigot · 30/10/2021 12:13

Thanks everyone some really good tips here.

OP posts:
NeverDropYourMooncup · 30/10/2021 12:38

Not all of this will be relevant for you, but it depends upon what you're doing, the sector and particular circumstances of your employer. The stuff relating to people who aren't directly doing your old job are very relevant (I'm calling them minions because I'm taking the piss out of how I was treated as one - it's not a judgement of their job, it's a judgement upon how it feels they are regarded by Professional Staff and Management).

Notice things.

Notice who does things to help other members of staff even when it's with something that isn't directly related to their job description. Who is often seen helping Admin with large mailshots? Who is standing at the bottom of a ladder spotting the site manager and passing up screwdrivers, ceiling tiles or picks up a mop to help when there's a leak under the sink? Who has other members of staff in with them, explaining how a particular system works - not because they're the official expert, but because they're approachable to somebody who perhaps hasn't used it before and they explain it well/without making them feel small?

Notice who always seems to be sorting out the paper jams in the photocopier. And who always seems to be walking away in a hurry to use another one and leaves it for somebody else to find and deal with, rather than sorting it out. Who leaves the copier out of paper and who loads up a new ream, rather than just 20 sheets because they can't be arsed to do it properly?

Notice slight differences in tone, body language and phrasing between when somebody talks to you/other senior staff and how they speak to 'less important' members of staff. Notice if the other member of staff is being utterly polite in the face of being spoken to like they're the lowest of the low (my best not-my-manager overheard that and acted upon it) or looks tense afterwards. Ask them quietly 'Does xxx always speak to you like that? Is that how xxx speaks to you when nobody else is around?'. If you're not directly managing one or either of them, speak to their line manager - not just the one who is out of order, but also the one who is spoken to inappropriately/sharply. Don't take a 'That's just how they are, they're very dedicated' response as acceptable.

If there's somebody who [cringe, but it's important] gives the impression that they might be neurodivergent, notice whether there's somebody who they are far more comfortable around/appears to get along with. What is it about both of them that seems to be working well? Who will say 'Oh, Fred helped me with that' or 'Jen's helping Liz and Mike with the presentation because she's great at writing introductions and can make them look fantastic' and therefore is subtly telling you that a) Fred is helpful and deserves credit, b) Liz and Mike aren't solely responsible for the presentation if it goes really well, despite what they may let you think and c) Jen has skills/talents that she's not being credited for.

Be aware of who seems quite isolated, whether physically due to where they work, what they do or because every time there's an event/presentation/big occasion or celebration, they're working their backside off doing the donkey work whilst somebody paid significantly more than them smiles sweetly and says 'Oh, it's such hard work, but I love every second of it' whilst accepting the praise and gifts for 'organising' it.

Notice whether the extra fancy bits are physically done by the person claiming credit for it, or whether there's actually an exhausted minion who has been ordered to do it (on top of the rest of their workload) having to cut individual paper tablecloths for thirty tables in two contrasting company colours, put a sharp crease into every corner and finish exactly 10cm below the surface of the tables, get the second cloth perfectly centred, blow up coordinating balloons and ribbons they have to curl, apply coordinating table confetti and then not just clean it up when everybody else has gone home, but has been told they have to keep those tablecloths in pristine condition to use next time, so can't even shove them in a bin bag along with the bloody confetti that isn't already on the floor. Have an absolute ban on the use of fucking glitter curtains for events and presentations/awards - somebody has to crawl around on the floor to cut the ends of them with a pair of paper scissors to make them fit that drop. Even better, completely ban all sparkly plastic shite, balloons and stuff that is foiled. It's appalling for the planet and more hassle than it's worth for the person who actually has to make it look pretty.

Have minions' breaks (and be aware if they actually get them, as it's all too common that they're put under pressure to not take them at all 'because I never take a lunchbreak, you know) all been set at a time when there's nobody else around on break? So they're even more isolated from everybody else than if they were able to take their break when it's legally supposed to happen? Don't assume that their manager is telling the truth - check with them.

Notice the one who Everybody Loves. Does their smile actually ever extend past their cheekbones? Or does it switch off instantly when a minion crosses their path? Or do any minions discreetly change trajectory to avoid them whenever they're spotted in the distance?

Notice the positives. Who seems to be able to make something look amazing with very little backup - well presented emails, posters, even their immediate desk area? There's a possible skill there not being recognised, supported and encouraged. Whose area shows that they see the world in a slightly different way - perhaps rather than everything on email, their planning is all done on A3 with large, brightly coloured markers? Can you find out a course that might enable them to develop this skill without it having to be directly linked to their current job description? Who gives the impression of having a very technical/logical/practical approach to things or an aptitude for fixing stuff? Could they be well supported to use those skills and develop them in a slightly different trajectory to their current role? Who seems to have the ability to calm down angry clients, the IT manager, who hears a scuffle or scream and immediately gets up with a plastic cup and piece of card in their hand because they know what the There's a Spider in Here klaxon sounds like? Who automatically helps - not who charges in because they're here to the rescue and it's exciting and looks good - who automatically helps?

Be aware of the disparities in contract terms/security/pay. Great, your professional team may well have good terms, the ability to work from home or do the school run in their cars, good housing and defined progression. But what about the other staff? Is that person expected to stay for another hour after coming in early and working through lunch with no additional pay because it's what the professional staff do (and are compensated well for doing so) actually being taken the piss out of, as they're on a hugely lower wage, have no entitlement to overtime or time off in lieu in their contract and can't say no because they're actually on a fixed term and need it renewed? Are you expecting somebody who has no sense of security, low wages, no chance of progression and a very real fear of not making the rent at the end of the month to agree to a two hour wait in the rain for a bus/train/bus/walk, no money to get a cab and no spare cash for a snack to keep them going for another four hours to work for free because 'well, we have to do it unpaid too, it's the needs of the business'?

Notice if somebody looks tired, a little drawn, has lost weight (don't necessarily comment upon it directly, it might be intentional, it might not), if their clothes seem looser/worse fitting. Don't come at it from a position of 'You need to buy new clothes, it's not professional to have trousers bagging around your legs'. Don't assume that the fat person must have gone on a diet or that any weight loss won't hurt them anyhow/that the thin person looking thinner must just be naturally skinny/has to be anorexic. It's still a change, it might be something they're pleased about, related to something they've achieved outside work, they might be feeling unwell, stressed, or nothing significant - but notice it. Notice if somebody might be covering up abuse, who flinches when somebody waves their arms around a bit too much to make their point or clams up/stammers when a conversation is more confrontational/blunt. Not just women.

Notice if, for example, a male member of staff always seems to sit very close to a female one or always needs to be standing up near her/rolling his chair until they're practically touching and she can't roll hers any further away, so shifts in her seat and angles away from him. Is he encroaching upon her personal space? Is she trying to subtly put greater distance between them? Does she look a little tense whilst trying to not draw attention to it? If they share an office, does she always try to have the door open, whilst he closes it? Does she try to avoid going near the cupboard when he's around? Is her body language screaming GET AWAY FROM ME whilst she has to smile and speak to him?

***
Be clear about decisions. You don't necessarily have to make all of them as long as you make it clear that the decision of the person who is does will be respected and supported. But if a decision needs to be made, make it.

Ask people 'If you were making the decision, what would you decide?' You might find that somebody in a junior/minion position has some bloody good ideas that way - and it's suggesting to them that you can see them progressing when all too frequently, the attitude is that if you aren't already a professional/manager, there's no chance you'll ever get any further so it isn't worth trying. The person who jokes 'do you know how much trouble I've gotten into in my life by thinking for myself?' is quite possibly somebody who has absolutely been pigeonholed and restricted/held back all the time. Smile back and say 'Well, here's your chance to do it without getting into trouble. What would you decide?'

I'd suggest that a Mental Health First Aid course is a good idea. Not just for you. Who is the First Aider? Do they actually want to be or is nobody else willing to do it? Does it restrict them from doing something else like leaving their desk?

Ugh. That turned into more of a brain dump than anything else.

Tl;dr: Notice what is going on around you, behind your back and isn't thought of as important. Make decisions but encourage confidence and suggestions from everybody, not just the 'important' people. Encourage development in all, not just the 'important' people. Don't hide away in your office and only speak to somebody when you want to bollock them for something. Speak to other managers for the benefit of their team members as well as your own.

happinessischocolate · 30/10/2021 13:20

Don't have favourites, treat everyone the same,

Starseeking · 30/10/2021 16:49

Let your staff get on with their roles in the way they think best, as long as it's not detrimental to the service delivery.

Check in with staff on progress, but don't micro-manage. Especially don't change 2 words in an email because you want your team "speaking in your voice".

Be genuinely friendly, but not friends with your staff, as this will either undermine the relationship, or the team will lose respect for you as a manager.

Look after them when they need extra support; giving a staff member a free afternoon off if they are upset over a serious personal situation really isn't the end of the world.

Treat your staff equally and fairly, otherwise the team may fall apart with infighting.

Be prepared to do anything you that you have asked your team members to do; don't save the menial jobs for the minions.

You are no better than your staff just because you are a manager; always remember that.

Doorhandleghost · 30/10/2021 18:04

Firstly, as a new manager, accept that you won’t get it right all the time, and don’t be too hard on yourself if you realise you’ve made a mis step.

Accept also that not everyone will like you! When you’re “the manager” some people will mistrust you purely because of your position. Don’t take it personally. Your job isn’t to be friends with everyone is it, and if you try I guarantee that you try to do that you’ll be a poor manager.

Remember that your role is to lead the team and not to do the work. This is particularly important in your case as your team does the role you’ve been doing.

It’s worth doing some research into the difference between leadership and management. Get good at having and framing difficult conversations.

Establish quickly whether your management chain is supportive - by this I mean will they back you up if you need to take tough action. Chances are your “perfect” new team won’t be so perfect once you starting to scratch the surface, or you’ll want to change things around a bit etc. It’s hard to tidy things up if your manager won’t support you.

Adopt a stance of applying the company policies fairly to everyone, but making it clear that no one is exempt and don’t make special arrangements outside the policies, it really annoys people and breeds resentment.

Support people’s development - I know exactly what the career aspirations/timescales of all 45 of my staff are, and where I can I help them get there. I don’t directly manage them all and some of their managers had never asked them this and were surprised by the answers.

Trusting your staff to get on with it is very important - but so too is knowing when you need to step in and help/support. I’m always hands off until I see I need to go hands on, and that’s almost always when I can sense someone is struggling a little either with the work or because of a personal issue. You will never be able to observe that unless you’re having regular check ins and having a good high level handle on what people are doing - this is not the same as micro managing at all but it’s a fine balance. I’d usually go in by having an exploratory conversation with them and ask how it’s going etc, often just knowing they have your support is enough.

When I was a new manager I decided my first rule would be not to do any of the crappy or unfair things managers had done to me in the past. Things like applying the sickness policy to me but not my colleague. Being so hands off with the team that we couldn’t actually get hold of them when you needed them to do something. Stealing ideas/work rather than giving credit for them. Micro managing and bullying. Dismissing concerns of being over worked. Fraud….. the list goes on, I could write a book about the bad managers I’ve had!

Ruffledcardigan · 30/10/2021 18:17

I’m not a manager but I think different management styles for different people. Personally I need micromanaging or I will absolutely take the piss.

RandomMess · 30/10/2021 19:47

Ruffle accountability is good, micro managing is hideous!!

Metabigot · 30/10/2021 20:06

Micromanaging is my worst nightmare! I left my last job because my boss was a horrendous micromanager and I ended up telling her the barest of bare minimums what I was doing to avoid her taking over. The kind of work we do is very much client driven so whilst I will speak to my team on a weekly basis for 1:1s the work wont' come through me - so long as the client is happy and the employee is happy they know what they are doing I'm planning not to interfere... give support if asked or I sense they need it or if I want them to think of what other options there are... but if they are confidently dealing with an issue and don't need me to step in I'm not going to get too involved.

I think my main challenge will be to keep the appropriate balance between friends and friendly... by nature I want to make friends with everyone I work with (in a business appropriate way obvs) but I can understand that as boss you can be friendly but not friends... so it's just striking that balance. We all work from home so it can be a bit lonely, although there are 2 others at my level that I can befriend on more of a colleague basis.

Thanks for everyone's hints and tips.

OP posts:
Ruffledcardigan · 30/10/2021 21:14

@RandomMess

I do agree. It is awful. @JorisBohnson2 sounds similar to my current set up but my manager is very relaxed, and I just can’t do the work without someone having to put a rocket up my arse.

Metabigot · 30/10/2021 21:24

[quote Ruffledcardigan]@RandomMess

I do agree. It is awful. @JorisBohnson2 sounds similar to my current set up but my manager is very relaxed, and I just can’t do the work without someone having to put a rocket up my arse.[/quote]
Sounds like you are in the wrong job @Ruffledcardigan.

OP posts:
Ruffledcardigan · 30/10/2021 21:59

@JorisBohnson2

Oh I am, looking to get out asap.

Good luck with your management career sounds like you’re going to be one of the good ones.

Tinymrscollings · 30/10/2021 22:26

Never ask someone that works for you to do something that you wouldn’t be prepared to do yourself. Before I ask someone who works for me to do anything, I check with myself (and them if it’s something I don’t understand the details of) that I’m giving clear information, a reasonable timeframe and a task that is worth their time. It’s not seen me far wrong.

traka · 31/10/2021 06:35

The second you cross the line and have certain employees that are also friends then there's no going back

You need to keep it professional

I've seen a previous manager play golf with an employee out of work and that has then led to lots of favoritism which in turn effects other employees

Be friendly but don't cross the employee/friend line

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