Compressed Working in Civil Service

[ShipwreckSunset]

I currently work 4 days a week in a large corporate multinational and am disillusioned with the whole concept. I would like to work in a more meaningful field that aims to contribute to more than just shareholder profit. I have been considering roles in the civil service and education setting but there is unsurprisingly a big pay cut involved. I could effectively be working 5 days for less than my current 4 day pay.
Is there any possibility of getting compressed hours on entering a role, ie keeping to 4 days but working longer hours and getting full pay. At least I would retain my much valued day off even with lower pay. Or is that reserved for longer term employees who have ‘proved themselves’?

It's worth asking the question. CS roles are very flexible and compressed hours are not an unusual work pattern.

I'm at an arm's length organisation, rather than core civil service, but we have a lot of flexibility in working patterns and I know a couple of colleagues who work in my department who work compressed hours. One does a 9 day fortnight and one does 4 days a week. They have given up their flexi but it seems to work for them. No reason at all it couldn't work for a new starter. Good luck OP.

You can ask. It depends on the team to be honest, usually 10 in 9 is preferred but flexibility has definitely increased post covid.

I’m my experience of working for a NDGB you will certainly get more flexible working but I wouldn’t for one moment assume that it’s meaningful work.

I worked for a quango that was supposed to oversee effective and efficient spending of public money and it was the biggest gravy train going fb and I was hilariously surrounded by earnest types who genuinely think they made a difference 🤣

Go for it for better working hours by all means but don’t expect fulfilling work, you need to be on the frontline for that (as I am now).

Yes I work in the CS and you can pretty much have whatever you want!

Yes, absolutely possible.

Also worth knowing (given you'll be taking a big pay cut) what the pay arrangements are. In my organisation there isn't a pay band so no chance of a pay increase beyond the 1% or so unless you successfully apply for a new role in a higher grade. I've found that hard as I've been on the same grade for a while and the money doesn't stretch as far. I don't think it's the same in other public sector roles.

Thanks for the comments, definitely good to know it seems a possibility and not a total no go.

@tigerinyourtank it is a concern moving to public sector in many ways, but you are right that I shouldn’t just assume it will be meaningful and not just annoying in different ways, not to mention big pay cut.

A different element I’m slightly confused by, there are several MoJ roles I’ve looked at that seem to have nationwide location. I get that if they are remote based (wfh) but they don’t seem to imply this. Does that mean there are people working in the same team based out of different CS locations around the country? That makes less sense than if they said remote based!

Location listed as:
East Midlands, Eastern, London, North East, North West, Scotland, South East, South West, Wales, West Midlands, Yorkshire and the Humber

I believe that all contracts need to include a place of work. The MOJ role you have seen can be based in any of those locations and it will be the regional office location on your contract of employment. And yes depending on the role it could be that your team colleagues are based in different locations.

I guess I was just surprised to see so many locations listed yet no mention of wfh as a possibility. I have no problem with other team members being based wherever, and most stakeholders in my current role are in various locations across Europe. But it doesn’t make much sense to me if wfh is not an option in this case? I wasn’t expecting wfh to be so much of a feature in CS, but then I thought entire team would be in one location. If they aren’t, then surely wfh makes a lot of sense? Or is Wfh not really encouraged outside of covid?

In my current role, I’ve been home based since March 2020 and expect to be until at least spring next year and then return to hybrid system, but most people wfh 1-2 days a week pre covid anyway.

Im in a civil service dept, part of a team of 18, I live in the midlands, I have colleagues in Nottingham, London, Cambridge, Sheffield, Darlington, Newcastle and a couple designated remote workers with no designated ‘ home’ office
We have met as a whole team once in the last 16 months, we are not that unusual in our dept.
we have a range of Flexible working arrangements, compressed hours, job share, part time, term time working, available to all grades as long as business needs are met

I love the idea that the civil service = meaningful work.

@madisonbridges

is there any need to do turn this into civil service bashing ?
The civil service is hugely varied - I’m sure you would agree that the Coast Guard is quite useful, and the people who will be paying your pension.? What about the British Musuen, The Imperial War Musuem “- all part of the civil service. I think you would find the Foreign Office quite handy if you got into trouble abroad

@Ted27 that is good to know.

Sorry if it seems naive to think that working in the public sector could be more meaningful than a large profit making org. I’m aware that it is hardly saving the world, but it feels as though it is at least making a more positive contribution than what I am doing currently.

@Ted27 what is the general attitude to wfh in your dept? Do you find there to be much point going into the office if your team are dispersed throughout the country? Thank you.

@ShipwreckSunset

my dept has moved to hybrid working, you are expected to be in 40 to 60% of your time.
I work 4 days a week so will probably do two days a week, although t he last couple of weeks I have done three days in because there have been particular reasons to go in. There are three other people in my team based at my office, we have agreed we will all go in on Tuesdays.

Personally, yes I do find it useful to go in. Its the random stuff you just don’t get WFH. Last week I found out something very significant on a personal level - totally random conversation, the week before I was earwigging on someone’s Teams call - and ended up with a useful contact for a project I am working on.
As for meaningful work - many civil service jobs are as boring and tedious as anywhere else, you can be many steps removed from any ‘end user’ who is benefiting from your service. My job is basically adminstration - not very exciting, a bit dull on occasion, but if I didnt do what I do, my team couldnt do what they do - and that would be problem. We are a Covid emergency response team.
And in case anyone is wondering what I’m doing on mn in worktime - its half term and I’m on leave

My job is definitely meaningful, and it's what keeps me going on tough days. Occasionally customers (public) are grateful and say thank you for the help and advice I provide.

Not an issue in my CS dept - and actually quite common!

There is a lot to think about in making a move from private to public sector. Pay is a big factor, but I’m thinking that the compressed hours might help in that regard. I regularly work over my hours in current role so I’m not sure it will feel much longer, assuming I don’t continue to work additional hours on top of full time. Is there an expectation you would do this on regular basis, looking at G7 type roles? Everyone I know in my current place of work does additional hours so even though I’m paid for 4 days, i probably work equivalent to 5 days.

The pension certainly looks better which helps offset, although I’m not clear on the benefit. It appears as a new starter you can join a career average DB scheme or a DC schem and the employer will pay in ~27% salary which seems incredibly generous, not sure I am reading that correctly esp for DC! Also not sure why you would choose DC over DB although I guess there is more flexibility.

It really depends where you work. I work in a central govt dept, my team works closely with the Secretary of State’s office and No 10, if you have them asking for stuff you can’t exactly say sorry Ive done my hours.

Up to Feb this year I was probably putting in 10 - 12 hour days regularly, and weekends, Christmas was a blur, at the moment I’m doing my 7.5 with a few hours extra maybe once a week. But there is never any issue getting time for personal appointments, taking a day flex leave when its quiet. You just log your hours.
Despite the rhetoric to the contrary, most govt depts have been working their socks off over the pandemic, in my dept at least the message is very much about returning to normal levels, and most jobs have peaks and troughs anyway, it even out if you are sensible about it.

Commonplace to have varying work arrangements! I would say don't move just because you feel it would be more fulfilling, there's often an inordinate amount of red tape, old clunky systems, frustrating barriers to helping make things better.

It's worth asking but very much depends on the role - some need cover at set times

[quote Ted27]@madisonbridges

is there any need to do turn this into civil service bashing ?
The civil service is hugely varied - I’m sure you would agree that the Coast Guard is quite useful, and the people who will be paying your pension.? What about the British Musuen, The Imperial War Musuem “- all part of the civil service. I think you would find the Foreign Office quite handy if you got into trouble abroad[/quote]
😂😂😂 civil service bashing. Get over yourself.
I have worked in three civil service depts, including the DWP and I can assure you moving bits of paper around and battling antiquated systems is the absolute opposite of meaningful.

I used to work for a massive aeronautical company. They made fantastic planes. I suppose my job contributed to that plane but when you're removed from the output, there is no reward in any of your work.

Most people in the CS don't work closely with the secretary of state and no 10. 😆 If you are in mgt or thinking of going into it, you should bear in mind, that for most people, working in the CS is stultifying.

@madisonbridges

And if you has read my other post I said that many civil service jobs are boring and tedious. I’ve had my share of them.
Personally I wouldnt touch the DWP with a bargepole, and as a lowly HEO, if it wasnt for Covid I wouldnt be anywhere near SoS office or No 10.
Not that working with those offices mean you are having a natter with Boris eveyday, you are dealing with minions

Any thoughts on MoJ or Home Offfice?