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Original poster

Christmas Eve

86 replies

fufulina · 22/09/2021 15:06

Hi - we’ve just been told that the company of giving everyone Christmas Eve off and gifting that holiday to staff. Christmas Eve is a Friday this year and I don’t work on Fridays. HR have told me to suck it up. I think that’s unfair, as full time workers gain an extra day of holiday that I don’t. What does anyone in HR think? Thank you.

OP posts:
mistermagpie · 22/09/2021 16:35

It's a bit of a bummer but I think you just have to suck it up. I don't work Fridays either, but I do accrue some leave for those if a public holiday (good Friday or whatever) falls on a Friday, unfortunately Christmas Eve isn't a public holiday so there's not much you can do.

mistermagpie · 22/09/2021 16:37

@Willow19C

Actually, some of these posts about Mondays are not accurate.

I don't work Mondays, but I get given extra days for bank holidays that I would get off if I did work Mondays. I'm part time, so they cant discriminate against me by not allowing me bank holiday hours off.

I would Google this to find a post by ACAS or someone to back this up, but I'm too tired!

I'm the same. I don't work Mondays or Fridays, my contract is 0.69 of a full time so I get 0.69 of the public holiday hours back I think. I actually benefit massively from this working pattern, my DH works for the same company and doesn't work Tuesdays but overall works ten hours per week more than me and I still get more holidays than him!
duckiemonster · 22/09/2021 16:43

We have the same arrangement re annual leave / bank holidays for part timers - it's factored into your annual leave allowance. We also get a company-wide discretionary additional day at Christmas, which is the same day for everyone. If the discretionary day falls on a non-working day for part timers, they are allowed to pick another day over the Christmas/NY period to be informally agreed and taken with their line manager (i.e. it doesn't get entered on the annual leave system). Your employer sounds a bit mean if they don't let you do this!!

Original poster
fufulina · 22/09/2021 16:53

Thanks everyone for comments. I clearly will not say a word, but will feel slightly aggrieved!

OP posts:
flowery · 22/09/2021 17:31

I’m surprised so many people are saying suck it up. Perhaps people don’t realise treating part timers less favourably than full timers is unlawful!

OP your holiday is presumably pro rata from full time, and if the full time leave entitlement is higher this year, yours should be too.

Calling something a “gesture of goodwill” doesn’t mean it’s ok to treat people differently where this is either prohibited or is morally questionable.

Paq · 22/09/2021 17:34

Make a fuss and they won't do it again. Christmas Eve will eventually fall on one of your working days.

Assuming they are generally good employers then a bit of give and take is helpful all round.

lalalapurple · 22/09/2021 17:50

I think it is discriminatory. My workplace gave us a couple of extra days off- the second time they did it they offered time in lieu for part-timers because they recognised it was unfair...I think if say you work 3 out of 5 days you should get 3/5 of a day off?

GreatPotato · 22/09/2021 17:58

@Paq

Make a fuss and they won't do it again. Christmas Eve will eventually fall on one of your working days.

Assuming they are generally good employers then a bit of give and take is helpful all round.

This is true. I work in school, we once gave staff some online training to do at their leisure, which meant they didn't have to work one of the INSET days, meaning it as a nice thing to do for staff. The extra day meant a 4 day BH weekend in May.

It got so complicate and contentious with part timers complaining that it wasn't fair that they were doing the same amount if training (even though no one was really doing the full day) that we'll never do it again.

Yes, they were probably right, but they were so difficult about it and it created so much bad feeling, when we were trying to do staff a favour.

flowery · 22/09/2021 18:15

It is not at all hard to give part timers a bit of extra time off. They shouldn’t have to “make a fuss”.

Paq · 22/09/2021 18:53

@flowery

It is not at all hard to give part timers a bit of extra time off. They shouldn’t have to “make a fuss”.
In theory I agree but my experience makes me cynical.

Once I had a team of 20ish people. They had worked really hard during a busy year. As a treat we arranged a day out to Alton Towers. Coach, VIP room, lunch, dinner back in a local hotel with money behind the bar.

Part time members of staff complained that they were only contracted to work a half day so they wanted a coach home at lunchtime.

Full time staff complained the part time staff were getting the same value treat even though they only worked part time. Non-drinkers complained the drinkers were getting more value from the day than they were.

One woman decided not to come because her son would kick off if he heard his mum went to Alton Towers without him. She stayed at home and her friend petitioned for her to get a cash equivalent. Then someone else asked if they could get a case equivalent....

And on it went.

Paq · 22/09/2021 18:56

*case = cash

Just remembered, the part timers also asked if they stayed the full day then could the have time off in lieu the following week.

StCharlotte · 22/09/2021 19:01

I know that sour taste. I was the only full timer and I took Christmas Eve off as annual leave once only to find that they decided to close on Christmas Eve. Did they give me my day's leave back? Did they buggery.

GreatPotato · 22/09/2021 19:03

@Paq

You forgot the ones who don't want to go on a works outing and would rather have the cash/day off to themselves and the ones who think as they've been on a work outing outside of their working hours they shoud be paid.

prh47bridge · 22/09/2021 19:18

Another thread with lots of wrong answers.

Contrary to what some say on here, bank holidays are NOT different. It is because people think they are different that so many get it wrong. If a full-time worker receives 25 days holiday per year plus bank holidays, that really means that they get 33 days holiday per year, but the company stipulates that 8 of those days must be taken on bank holidays. Someone working a 4-day week would therefore be entitled to 26.4 days holiday.

A lot of people have focussed on this being a goodwill gesture and not contractual. Again, wrong. That is entirely irrelevant. The regulations are clear. As flowery says, part time workers have the legal right to be treated no less favourably than full time workers (The Part-time Workers (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000). If full time workers are being given an extra day off, part time workers must be given time off pro rata, so a part time worker on 4 days a week would get an extra 0.8 days.

The OP's HR department are wrong.

Willow19C · 22/09/2021 19:24

@prh47bridge

Another thread with lots of wrong answers.

Contrary to what some say on here, bank holidays are NOT different. It is because people think they are different that so many get it wrong. If a full-time worker receives 25 days holiday per year plus bank holidays, that really means that they get 33 days holiday per year, but the company stipulates that 8 of those days must be taken on bank holidays. Someone working a 4-day week would therefore be entitled to 26.4 days holiday.

A lot of people have focussed on this being a goodwill gesture and not contractual. Again, wrong. That is entirely irrelevant. The regulations are clear. As flowery says, part time workers have the legal right to be treated no less favourably than full time workers (The Part-time Workers (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000). If full time workers are being given an extra day off, part time workers must be given time off pro rata, so a part time worker on 4 days a week would get an extra 0.8 days.

The OP's HR department are wrong.

This.
RosieGuacamosie · 23/09/2021 16:23

@prh47bridge

Another thread with lots of wrong answers.

Contrary to what some say on here, bank holidays are NOT different. It is because people think they are different that so many get it wrong. If a full-time worker receives 25 days holiday per year plus bank holidays, that really means that they get 33 days holiday per year, but the company stipulates that 8 of those days must be taken on bank holidays. Someone working a 4-day week would therefore be entitled to 26.4 days holiday.

A lot of people have focussed on this being a goodwill gesture and not contractual. Again, wrong. That is entirely irrelevant. The regulations are clear. As flowery says, part time workers have the legal right to be treated no less favourably than full time workers (The Part-time Workers (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000). If full time workers are being given an extra day off, part time workers must be given time off pro rata, so a part time worker on 4 days a week would get an extra 0.8 days.

The OP's HR department are wrong.

They will simply get round this by saying the office is closed on Christmas Eve and therefore staff are not required to come in Confused
Original poster
fufulina · 23/09/2021 16:54

But if they blanket close the office then people will need to use a day of annual leave - as they do the rest of Christmas.

OP posts:
Booknooks · 23/09/2021 16:58

Out of interest, if it fell on a day you were working would you happily take the full day off, or say I should only have 0.x off as I'm only part time?

RosieGuacamosie · 23/09/2021 17:05

@fufulina

But if they blanket close the office then people will need to use a day of annual leave - as they do the rest of Christmas.
No they won’t. The company can require them to take annual leave but they don’t have to.
flowery · 23/09/2021 17:52

”They will simply get round this by saying the office is closed on Christmas Eve and therefore staff are not required to come in”

How would that “get round it”? Either full time staff are getting an extra paid day off or they aren’t. Describing it as the office being shut doesn’t change that fact in the slightest.

Original poster
fufulina · 23/09/2021 17:56

No - the company dictates the days the office is shut at Christmas as annual leave. Perfectly normal.

I’d be delighted with the day off and if it was pro-rata so I needed to take an additional 0.2 of my entitlement to take the full day, I’d be totally fine with that.

OP posts:
Lovelydovey · 23/09/2021 18:02

If they do this every year you’d get 4/5 days off, which would be in line with your working pattern. So suck it up on this occasion and hope they continue and you benefit in future.

Frostyniknaks · 23/09/2021 18:05

Get on with it. It's not worth crying over.

MajorCarolDanvers · 23/09/2021 18:07

Here is what ACAS says on the matter:

"If your employer gives full-time employees more than the statutory annual leave (for example, 6 weeks), then part-time employees must get the same, calculated pro rata."

I suggest that you call ACAS tomorrow and they will be able to advise you on your rights and the best way to approach this with your employer.

The number is 0300 123 1100

TolkiensFallow · 23/09/2021 18:11

I really can’t see why you can’t just ask you manager to swap your working day that week.