Why is there bullying in the NHS?

[WhyOWhyOh]

I've never worked in the health industry, I'm a teacher. I have to admit there a few roles in the NHS I've considered career swapping for but it's just been day dreams for me so far.

One thing I read constantly is the bullying that goes on. What type of bullying, what's happened can anyone share their story? AIBU to ask?

I've been bullied in teaching. I don't know if it's an institutional thing. I left one job because of it. Experienced it in two other roles but I'm a fighter and so far not had to run away since.

So what happened to you if you've been bullied in the NHS and why do you think the bully did what they did?

I was treated very differently in my first teaching post to a colleague and was put in too many purposefully stressful situations that should have been shared equally at the time. I was ignored in team meetings, talked over etc so I just stopped contributing. My colleague got trained up and promoted when I got ignored etc, pure favouritism. My colleague was an ex pupil from that school and I've come to realise it's so incestuous in education. If you're an ex pupil returning as a teacher you're put on a pedestal. My second post found me being intimidated by my line manager, invading my space, towering over me, threats etc. He was like that I believe due to the insane pressure he was under from above.

I think that it’s so common because people get away with it though and so there are no consequences.

Staffing is at a dangerous level and so that’s probably one reason.

The other would be that when you name examples of times you’ve been bullied they don’t really sound sanction worthy, just like the odd comment here and there so perhaps it’s a case of not enough to go on to actually start any procedure.

I’ve worked with people I’d consider really good friends and then when they got into management became very unpleasant to be around, so a culture issue too maybe.

Various reasons;

Massive organisation makes it easier for bullies to hide.
Stressful working environment can bring out the worst in people.
Lots of female employees - lots of whom take more shit than a man would.
Still a lot of traditional "hierarchy" type structure which lends itself to bullies.

I think often performance management is either done poorly and becomes bullying or is poorly communicated so that it is done correctly but perceived as bullying.

The challenge is around having candid conversations about performance when everyone is already working very, very hard and short of time and often feeling stressed. If a team member isn't delivering to the same level as other team members it can cause ill feeling and I'm not sure all line managers have enough training and experience on how to step back from that and have constructive discussions.

acute staff shortages so no-one wants to sack or move an otherwise competent person
lack of management time, energy, skill and training to manage these issues effectively, so they linger.

Because a lot of staff are women and instead of dealing with issues directly with each other they backstab and start campaigns against each other.

I was bullied by a senior member of staff and was a wreck after and I only stayed 3 months.

@Fluffycloudland77
@MissyB1

I agree there can be a female element but not exclusively. One of my ex managers was male. It was a different kind of bullying from him, not a long game approach but fear and intimidation. I also had another male intimidate and threaten we when I worked elsewhere before teaching.

The department I'm in there are far too many managers, managers who have no experience in the department. They don't know the basics of what the 'lower' roles do. A lot of staff have been pushed and pushed since the start of the pandemic, minimal staffing levels in an already stressful environment.
We have had people bullied because their mental health broke down while all the managers sat working from home not once visiting "because of the risks of the virus".
It's all about numbers now, with threats and intimidation. A lot of staff are leaving because they are not supported due to the management not having a clue how hard it actually is.

I was bullied as a student nurse, it was my third placement in my first year. The bullying mainly from one nurse who was aiming for a promotion to ward sister, she had an odd amount of power over people and my mentor seemed to do whatever she wanted. A healthcare assistant hated me too. I could write an entire book chapter on the bullying, it was insidious and passive aggressive. I used to wake up feeling physically ill with nerves and cried myself to sleep. Destroyed my confidence and that made it easier for them. I passed my placement in the end but I left nursing.

I wish I had more of a spine and stood up them, it was partly my fault for allowing it to happen but I was only 21 and never experienced workplace bullying before. I would never allow to speak me that way now but I learnt a harsh lesson, it cost me a career in nursing.

I know a band 7 who has bullied 5 nurses out of her department! She has just been promoted to band 8 🙄🙄

There's bullying everywhere, as there is sexism and racism. My last manager got sacked for bullying, DH's manager in his last company got sacked for racism/bullying, both private sector. I always get annoyed when the media come out with a story about abuse by someone in the music/movie/sport industry and they ask "is there institutional [insert relevant "ism"] in that industry?" Probably, because it's in every sector. The bottom line is that some people in power are shitheads who abuse that power.

There's bullying everywhere

Quite simply, this

Exhausting isn't it? Especially if you are not particularly alpha lije me!

Because it employs people. And theres plenty of awful people in this world.

Not NHS bus HMRC, bullies got a written warning, one victim managed out while off sick and the other made redundant.
Bullies are still there.

I think in the past it attracted the wrong people. Or some of the wrong people. I realised much later in life one of the reasons I chose the job was that it was a caring role and therefore respected and admired by others. I now know (not that I wasn't caring in the role when I did it) that that is NOT what I should have chosen, I would have done much better with a techy, sciency job.
This was in the early 70s so not much choice for women (or there was choice but we didn't know it). It was also poorly paid which I hadn't realised. Young people today can't afford a house? I coudln't afford to run a car!
Also there was a bit of a martyrdom at work possibly due to the low wages, so there was sometimes feelings of being put upon when really a professional would just have got on with the job.
The other problem is poor management so the wrong people are promoted as the interviewers are not skilled enough to choose the right person.
But stressed overworked people are probably more likely to take it out on others I should think.

I think any profession that requires genuine, conscientious and honest people brings its fair share of bullying because in all walks of life, at every age and all four corners of the globe you also find those that prefer to skip out, cut corners and do things their way to suit.

Not specific to healthcare or nursing that's just human behaviour but in a health, social care or medical setting, you find or used to find a pattern of bullying older, more senior staff either taking younger, inexperienced staff under their wing to shape and mould them to suit and / or getting rid of the ones they can't win over and get on board and fast.

I started out in law initially and whilst I was on probation working as junior secretary, took on a second part time job doing one night a week in a local care home to top up extra spends for going daft at the weekend. Never thought I'd end up sidestepping into that for good but the abuse, bullying, horrific lack of shits given by anyone back in the 90's was dire. My day job working in the solicitors opened my eyes as well but fortunately I had seen the worst of both areas just as we rolled out a whole new world of care standards, legislation and safeguarding / whistle-blowing procedures which until then were non existent.

Interestingly when I went down a more specialist route of safeguarding, it struck me quite early on how care providers and services that were seemingly more robust, thorough and supposedly way ahead of everyone else seemed first to come up with new, ingenious ways of cranking the bullying up to max.

The misuse and deliberate, malicious false allegations made about colleagues was one way to get shot of someone they didn't like and for the longest time it worked.

The one good thing is at least we now have a system and all staff, students, new starters and volunteers / members of public can flag up what they might be concerned about and at least know it will be looked at a basic level.

On a final note, the feeling of smug satisfaction knocking at the door to carry out an unannounced inspection / investigation at the care home from which I was sacked a few years earlier by one particularly vile bastard owner / manager was immense.

Could see him eye me and give a "I know you from somewhere..." and then I introduced myself and a thousand pennies crashed all at once

@PinniGig that's an amazing story! Your insights really interesting thank you. And everyone else. It helps put everything into perspective.

Because human beings are pretty awful creatures sometimes.

In my experience it happens when people who lack experience but talk the talk in interviews with all the current buzzwords etc come into post and seem to feel intimidated by those who have chosen to remain at a lower grade to continue in a clinical role who may be more experienced and often ( not always) older than them.

When the manager doesn’t fully understand the challenges that clinicians are under, and when clinicians aren’t fully in agreement with proposed changes because they can see the impact it’s likely to have on patients and service delivery and raise that with the manager then it’s easier to intimidate staff into submission than actually have constructive discussions to understand the others point of view.

I also see it in reverse where someone within a team is promoted to a lead role or management and the jealousy and bitterness from former colleagues causes nasty bullying behaviour. I've witnessed really dedicated caring staff who would have made excellent managers walk away from the NHS because of it. Some people seem to think caring and compassion should flow from the top down.

When it needs to go both ways !

I think it can happen in the NHS because consultants have huge amounts of power relative to everyone else.

I think bullying goes in most places tbh.

@Egghead68

I think it can happen in the NHS because consultants have huge amounts of power relative to everyone else.

Not these days! Consultants in our Trust have zero power, young junior managers dictate to the Consultants.

Bullying happens everywhere. I think people are more shocked by it happening in the NHS because we are constantly told how the workers are heroes blah blah blah. Being a doctor or a nurse doesn’t exempt you from being an arsehole. one of the most vile, racist, horrible people I know is a nurse.