Daughter facing disciplinary over social media post

[user89066511]

My daughter works in retail in a supermarket. During lockdown at the beginning of the year someone posted on her timeline asking how she was and saying how rubbish the year was. She replied life is pretty normal for me working in supermarket but the customers are more annoying than ever.
Someone has reported the post and she now faces disciplinary action. Can anyone give any advice? She thinks that the company are been unreasonable but I know some companies are very strict on social media posts.

@Anguspie

Did her work provide social media training? Do they have a SM policy that she has been shown/trained on? Is there a SM clause in her contract? Did she mention the name of the supermarket on her profile or the post? If the answer is no to all of the above she has a case for unfair dismissal if it comes to that - you can’t expect employees to know something is against policy or considered unreasonable unless you tell them so………

It will have been in her contract

@Anguspie

Did her work provide social media training? Do they have a SM policy that she has been shown/trained on? Is there a SM clause in her contract? Did she mention the name of the supermarket on her profile or the post? If the answer is no to all of the above she has a case for unfair dismissal if it comes to that - you can’t expect employees to know something is against policy or considered unreasonable unless you tell them so………

Or...of all policies are made available, how is it the company's fault she didn't read them?

@Ifailed

Knowing employer policy and actually sticking to it, after agreeing to stick to it is 'slavishly devoted'.

Ha. Because everyone employed on a NMW contract is taken through the sheafs of policy documents dreamt up by a remote HR department which are constantly changing?

It's clear on this thread between those who deal with retail customers on a day-to-day basis working on a shop floor, and those who call it 'customer service' from an office elsewhere and don't experience it all the time. Probably too busy writing more policy documents.

No they wouldn't be taken through them. But they would be readily available. And as part of the contract there would be reference to the said policies. And it will probably say something along the lines of 'by working here, you agree to follow and comply with company policies'.

The best rule should be NEVER mention work on your social media, especially anything negative.
Would she have written a placard and put it on the front of the shop saying ‘all you customers are annoying’ signed OPs daughter?. If not, then don’t put it on SM.

Advice from HR bod - admit she was wrong, apologise profusely, say she now understands why it was wrong, declare loyalty to employer and ask for another chance. Any attempt to justify or to be clever will end badly.
If she's sacked, use internal appeal process and repeat above.

This is difficult but all she can do is apologise and take the post down and promise to never do it again.

Make a new account for personal and private use only.

Keep work and social media separate. I have seen a few using names on facebook for example like Ssue or something instead of actual name. It stops people looking you up in the first place. Secondly, keep your personal profile away from work colleagues completely.

I fear the day that zuckerberg uses the technology of mind reading. He's already thought about it.

@Ifailed

Knowing employer policy and actually sticking to it, after agreeing to stick to it is 'slavishly devoted'.

Ha. Because everyone employed on a NMW contract is taken through the sheafs of policy documents dreamt up by a remote HR department which are constantly changing?

It's clear on this thread between those who deal with retail customers on a day-to-day basis working on a shop floor, and those who call it 'customer service' from an office elsewhere and don't experience it all the time. Probably too busy writing more policy documents.

What? Why would they need to be taken through it? Are you suggesting people on NMW are unable to comprehend a social media policy, without someone reading it all to them?

And how do you know ops daughter is on nmw, when many supermarkets pay above it. Are you then going to say its fine to have a social media policy?

And actually, you are wrong. I have worked in customer face to face roles. I also worked for one of the big supermarket chains.

Social media policies have been around for at least 15 years, at lots of employers.

Its quite clear you have a chip on your shoulder about having to work in a supermarket, either currently or in the past. It obviously makes you very angry. But if all your customers are arseholes, it's probably you. Of course some customers are arseholes, but there's plenty who aren't. If all yours are, that makes you the common denominator.

I can't get the logic of believing supermarket staff, don't have to follow company policy. Based on the fact that they are supermarket staff. Is it just social media policies you have an issue with?

Flip it the other way. Why should I pay you money to slag off my company and our customers on social media?

It's really unwise of OPs DD to name her employer on her profile and not keep her opinions to herself. It's really not that hard but it does require a little wisdom. She will learn a lesson from it (if she's willing).

And frankly who wants to be served by someone (not referring to OPs DD here) who says things like it's only a minimum wage job why the fuck should I care about their stupid policies? I did lots of retail and restaurant jobs and always managed to care about doing it well.

I agree with others she needs to apologise say it won’t happen again .
If no union either her argument that they are being unreasonable and perhaps but in their eyes mentioning work on social media in a negative view is disciplinary offence .

Social media or not since most employers these days have a “action bringing company into disrepute…”clause in the contracts you’ve always needed to be careful of slagging off the boss, fellow employees or customers, regardless of whether you do it on SM, mail shot or shout it out from the town hall steps after having had a few too many on a Saturday night.

Wrong audience and the door is that way.

Ever wondered why NHS workers don't ever publically
a) say they can't cope and do their job properly with all the short staffing?
b) say clients are behaving badly despite needing police to help with being assaulted and with violent incidents at work?
c) publically critique PPE inadequacy or supply despite disproportionate deaths of NHS staff?

I think your daughter is learning. My colleagues who have even dared to say they were "late off work yet again after another hard shift" have had to answer at a "Meeting of Concern"
The NHS cannot have its workers speaking out about their workiing conditions in any negative way because to do so challenges government policy directly. It is a clear example and easy to think about and look up in the news - it would be the same then for Tesrose, Sainsda or Wait-isons too.

If your daughter wants to speak out about the company she needs to buy one share and speak her mind at a shareholders/company meeting. A bereaved mother did exactly this and has changed the laws and awareness around lorry -v- cyclist safety

I got into trouble at work once for this. A colleague posted something to another colleague along the lines of " hope you are ok after that terrible nightshift " and a few others joined in. All I wrote was " so glad I'm on holiday ". This was enough for us all to be hauled into an office individually and verbally warned. I was shocked at the time because I felt my comment was very inoffensive but apparently I shouldn't have responded at all. Your dd's post is offensive, as it insinuates that she finds all customers annoying and i can see why she's being disciplined. We would have probably been sacked in my last job if we'd said anything about annoying patients ( health care role ).

Name changed for this due to social media policies 😂

I'm a manager for Tesco and also trained to discipline/sack people for breaking company policies (many which are ridiculous). As long as she said people not customers she's got a case. The moment you say customers then you have no defence. She would have done online training in social media policies if she works at Tesco so she can't play dumb and claim she doesn't understand them.

I don't know if she's in the union but my advice would be if not join today, you'll get instant representation and help. She needs to find out what union her store uses, if it's Tesco it's Usdaw.

For what it's worth customers were definitely annoying, we've all said it and if I was investigating I'd have sympathy because we were working in exceptionally difficult circumstances and the public definitely cranked it up a few notches when it came to abuse and complaints. I've done so many customer complaint investigations this past 18 months and haven't given anyone anything that will stay on their file because we should be sticking together as colleagues and employers not bashing each other for what was an extremely difficult time.

For the customers I'd say unless you get exceptionally bad service then is your £5 voucher really worth the stress and possibility of someone losing their job? I've noticed the past few years customer complaints have gone through the roof because you know companies will give a token gesture for your so called inconvenience. I've seen staff sat in tears, shaking uncontrollably because a customer complaint has gone to a disciplinary when it was over something trivial that is often out of their control. We are all about "be kind" until it happens to us so it seems.

@seb342

Name changed for this due to social media policies 😂

I'm a manager for Tesco and also trained to discipline/sack people for breaking company policies (many which are ridiculous). As long as she said people not customers she's got a case. The moment you say customers then you have no defence. She would have done online training in social media policies if she works at Tesco so she can't play dumb and claim she doesn't understand them.

I don't know if she's in the union but my advice would be if not join today, you'll get instant representation and help. She needs to find out what union her store uses, if it's Tesco it's Usdaw.

For what it's worth customers were definitely annoying, we've all said it and if I was investigating I'd have sympathy because we were working in exceptionally difficult circumstances and the public definitely cranked it up a few notches when it came to abuse and complaints. I've done so many customer complaint investigations this past 18 months and haven't given anyone anything that will stay on their file because we should be sticking together as colleagues and employers not bashing each other for what was an extremely difficult time.

For the customers I'd say unless you get exceptionally bad service then is your £5 voucher really worth the stress and possibility of someone losing their job? I've noticed the past few years customer complaints have gone through the roof because you know companies will give a token gesture for your so called inconvenience. I've seen staff sat in tears, shaking uncontrollably because a customer complaint has gone to a disciplinary when it was over something trivial that is often out of their control. We are all about "be kind" until it happens to us so it seems.

Absolutely THIS

My pal decided to retire (over 70) because the abuse in the Tesco queue had finally triggered him to react and speak back to the rudeness he faced. Whilst better than being sacked, he has lost income and social contact as a result.

A pal at Euston rail station told me that 40- 80 customers per hour use the information desk and they celebrate the ONCE or TWICE A DAY they hear "Thank you". Shocking, entitled behaviour from us all.

@seb342

Name changed for this due to social media policies 😂

I'm a manager for Tesco and also trained to discipline/sack people for breaking company policies (many which are ridiculous). As long as she said people not customers she's got a case. The moment you say customers then you have no defence. She would have done online training in social media policies if she works at Tesco so she can't play dumb and claim she doesn't understand them.

I don't know if she's in the union but my advice would be if not join today, you'll get instant representation and help. She needs to find out what union her store uses, if it's Tesco it's Usdaw.

For what it's worth customers were definitely annoying, we've all said it and if I was investigating I'd have sympathy because we were working in exceptionally difficult circumstances and the public definitely cranked it up a few notches when it came to abuse and complaints. I've done so many customer complaint investigations this past 18 months and haven't given anyone anything that will stay on their file because we should be sticking together as colleagues and employers not bashing each other for what was an extremely difficult time.

For the customers I'd say unless you get exceptionally bad service then is your £5 voucher really worth the stress and possibility of someone losing their job? I've noticed the past few years customer complaints have gone through the roof because you know companies will give a token gesture for your so called inconvenience. I've seen staff sat in tears, shaking uncontrollably because a customer complaint has gone to a disciplinary when it was over something trivial that is often out of their control. We are all about "be kind" until it happens to us so it seems.

It’s unusual for a union to take on and represent someone (especially if legal advice is required) unless the person was a paying member before the issue arose.

I hope she's going to have the sense to offer a sincere apology at the disciplinary meeting. No one expects people to worship their employers - just to follow their policies.

[quote Matildalamp]**@JanuaryBones* @Ifailed* @Stardust91 @LobotomisedIceSkatingFan

Thank you for the common sense! Do the rest of you work in HR? Or are you just slavishly devoted to your workplace? Or most probably, you’re the annoying customers! Most people work because they have to, and do a good job while they’re there. What on earth is this utter nonsense that we have to be perfect robots and worship the company?? I can’t stand it! It is Americanisation, and it’s sickening. If I saw a post where a retail worker said the customers were annoying I’d think good for you, tell them off, they need it. People seem to get more and more entitled, “I’m a customer, I’m always right, you must serve me” Aaaarrrggghhh![/quote]
In case it has escaped your attention, this is an Employment Issues board to give sound legal advice to people.

You are doing the OP no favours by ranting about your own personal situation, and your opinion

If this was AIBU then you can get away with that, but let's separate your projections and personal opinion from fact, which amounts to telling the OP their DD needs to be a lot more careful what they post on SM in future, if they want to stay in employment. That's reality, whether you like it or not.

Joining a Union needs to happen before issues arise in the workplace. You wouldn't have a crash then suddenly decide you really ought to get car insurance!

Union membership works on exactly the same principle.

Sure they have to just act on it or at least show willing. Unless it was really bad, made personal references to someone specific or was inclusive of the store and where she worked, if I were her manager I'd probably just bring her in and say “That was a dumbass thing to do. I will let it go and give you the benefit of doubt but not a second time. Granted it's been a shit year and you can have customers that are difficult and can be taxing but your gripes and grumbles don't go outside the door and as a general rule of thumb and heads up, don't post anything on social media you don't want everyone to see or know about”

If it was flagged up by a colleague I'd be less inclined to be harsh and heavy handed.

If it came directly from a customer or member of public I'd make sure they were given a formal written apology, assure them it wasn't directed at any specific or individual customer but was an ill-judged off the cuff remark for which the staff member was dealt with internally.

Glad some more sensible people are joining the discussion. This pile on of the OP's daughter is ridiculous. In a time where Covid is seeing people refusing to wear masks and abusing supermarket staff is rife, we attack someone for answering how their day was truthfully. There are numerous stories of supermarket colleagues on the internet breaking down in tears at the end of the day, the attacks and abuse they face all day every day is horrendous, then to come on here and have one of these staff attacked for answering truthfully, anyone would be justified for thinking this was Vipers' AIBU.

@PinniGig

Sure they have to just act on it or at least show willing. Unless it was really bad, made personal references to someone specific or was inclusive of the store and where she worked, if I were her manager I'd probably just bring her in and say “That was a dumbass thing to do. I will let it go and give you the benefit of doubt but not a second time. Granted it's been a shit year and you can have customers that are difficult and can be taxing but your gripes and grumbles don't go outside the door and as a general rule of thumb and heads up, don't post anything on social media you don't want everyone to see or know about”

If it was flagged up by a colleague I'd be less inclined to be harsh and heavy handed.

If it came directly from a customer or member of public I'd make sure they were given a formal written apology, assure them it wasn't directed at any specific or individual customer but was an ill-judged off the cuff remark for which the staff member was dealt with internally.

but your gripes and grumbles don't go outside the door

So no one is able to vent to their partner or even therapist? Bit hard to resolve your feelings if you aren't even allowed to talk about the abuse or crap you got at work, with anyone.

If it came directly from a customer or member of public I'd make sure they were given a formal written apology, assure them it wasn't directed at any specific or individual customer but was an ill-judged off the cuff remark for which the staff member was dealt with internally.

And that's how bullies and troublemakers are rewarded. That a person is made to write a formal written apology to a Hyacintha Bucket or Karen-type apologist for making a non-descript post that refers to no one is letting THEM win. The employee should be supported, not chastised. You as an employer would be part of the problem and would be considered as one of those unsupportive employers who lets customers and troublemakers get their way.

*agitator, not apologist.

Does anyone think that supermarket customers aren't annoying? I don't work in one and I find them annoying. I'm pretty sure I can be annoying sometimes. People shop at supermarkets for convenience, products,and price. I can't see how one employee out of a hundreds, stating the obvious, would change anyone's, not even a single one, shopping pattern. In fact, the supermarket that goes overboard on this is more likely to bring attention to the fact that they have annoying customers. Good luck to your daughter.

Some customers are incredibly annoying. I don't work in one, but I've seen enough incidents to understand that perfectly. However this thread isn't about that. It's about whether what the OP's DD posted breaches her employer's social media policy. And in most organisations, what she wrote would be a breach and therefore would result in a disciplinary. And unlike cases of libel or slander, to say that what she wrote was the truth isn't a defence.

@Feedingthebirds1

Some customers are incredibly annoying. I don't work in one, but I've seen enough incidents to understand that perfectly. However this thread isn't about that. It's about whether what the OP's DD posted breaches her employer's social media policy. And in most organisations, what she wrote would be a breach and therefore would result in a disciplinary. And unlike cases of libel or slander, to say that what she wrote was the truth isn't a defence.

Yes, sorry. I picked up this thread through the active board not realising it was employment issues.