Anyone else have to clock in & out when working from home?

[brokenkettle]

Just started a job, currently working from home, that requires me to clock in and out. I know this is probably really silly but it's causing me a lot of stress because I feel like I need to be constantly in front of the computer during those hours, even though if I were in the office I'd be talking to other people etc and not constantly sitting down staring at the screen. I rarely have urgent work, so it's not like I need to be constantly available.

My previous WFH job did not require this and I felt much less pressure to be constantly at the computer - I would spend a bit of time with my child before & after school without guilt or rushing. Now it just feels very stressful to do so, like I'm being monitored or lying about my working hours! It's having a negative impact on my family as I end up grumpy and stressed, feeling like my child is imposing on work (when really it's probably the other way around...).

Am I being irrational? Does anyone else feel this way? Should I just stop overthinking this and spend the time with my child, go for a walk/exercise etc??

Earlier in the pandemic many people felt like they couldn’t leave their desk all day, like people always expected them to be available because where else would they be? It’s not like they could be in a meeting somewhere else or have gone to see a client. Thankfully we’ve moved on a lot from that.

This is an excellent point. Early in the pandemic when most of our employees were furloughed, those of us that remained were really putting the hours in. Then people returned from furlough. But those who had never wfh, really needed to encouraged to take breaks and log off.

Like they needed to do more, just incase people thought they were taking the piss. I would find employees on line at 7pm, clearing up bit that could be done the next day. I told them to log off.

Now they have a better balance, so get their work done. Are reachable if needed. We don't care if they hang their washing out at 11am.

Another thing to point out, is that last December we had full system breakdown. The vast majority of the company all really worked hard and long hours to get everything back with no loss of service to our customers. Then for weeks after.

Thatsvwhy we don't mind. Because when we need them too, they will go the extra mile. And they are happy to because we don't mind them taking bits of time for themselves, the rest of the time.

[quote NakedAttraction]@MedusasBadHairDay it really depends on the type of job. My work can be very unpredictable and requires extremely long hours at times and sometimes weekends too. So we allow our teams to take some downtime when they’re not so busy. It’s project based so can be very up and down. We also encourage them to within reason find a working pattern that works for them. So for some that means going to the gym in the day and working a bit longer in the evening. It works for us as long as people communicate well and don’t take the piss (and they’ll soon get found out if they do!)[/quote]
That makes sense, because they're making the time up. I have a similar arrangement so I can do the school run. As they are flexible with me, I'm then willing to be flexible with them.

It's the people who are actively avoiding work despite being paid for it I don't understand.

As someone who has worked at an agency where time is billed to clients - and now as a small business owner, I’m really quite surprised at the dissociation in some of these posts between time worked and value provided for that time. My expectation of myself, and those working for me, is of doing my best to provide a good value output for the time I have sold.

I have worked from home since 1994. Same job. As long as the work is done I can work what hours it needs. Sometimes two hours sometimes twelve hour days. Full time wage. Still in bed at 9.20. But worked from 7.30pm to 2.30am. Had yesterday off and got today off now too. Probably work this evening when work is brought home to me via husband.

@Bryzoan

As someone who has worked at an agency where time is billed to clients - and now as a small business owner, I’m really quite surprised at the dissociation in some of these posts between time worked and value provided for that time. My expectation of myself, and those working for me, is of doing my best to provide a good value output for the time I have sold.

I also meant to say I think flexibility in how that is delivered works in everyone’s interest where possible. I wouldn’t expect people clocking in and out, or working the same hours every day - but I would expect hard work and good value for the contracted hours / job over time (so no protracted coffee chats, unless it is meeting a work need or the work is being done later instead). I don’t really see a difference between home and office working from that point of view - it is just all about being fair and not taking the piss. As a small business owner I’m realising just how much work is needed to raise even a minimum wage salary to cover the costs!

Depends what the role is I suppose. With mine I organise my own time, appointments etc etc & it's very much as long as the work gets done, it doesn't matter when that is, some people are more productive in the mornings, others in the evenings.

Defo agree with the fact that just because people are in the office doesn't make them more productive. Very common in my role for people to take regular screen breaks, walk etc etc as well as have a chat/case discussion with other colleagues.

There was a point in time where management were getting shirty about people leaving early - say around 4pm - despite the fact that the majority of the staff have to log back in once at home to continue working due to insane workload!!! This had a negative impact on staff morale, and as such like PP have said, resulted in people sticking to their 9-5 hours and actually doing less work as they were not logging on once at home or doing unpaid overtime etc.

We don’t have to clock in and out but we use Teams and I know that they keep an eye on your Idle time and making up ‘meetings’ to fill the diary.

Making coffee, going to the loo, answering the door are all perfectly acceptable. You’d do that sort of stuff in an office. I’ve picked DCs up from school when they’ve missed the bus a couple of times, which is always fine.
Anything else happens in the hour long lunch break which we are allowed to take.

I’ve WFH for years. A previous employer was very much of the mindset that as long as it gets done, you can do what you like. My current is a bit stricter but bosses have young families so understand emergency childcare situations.

OP, you’re new there. You need to see how the land lies before you start going for walks and hanging out with your DD in work time.

I couldn't work for somewhere that expected me to sit at my desk for hours on end and time my breaks to the nearest second. How soul-destroying.

My work expects me to get my job done, to a high standard. Of course there are certain things I need to be available for at a certain time, but apart from that my diary is my own to manage as I see fit. If I want to take a couple of hours off in the afternoon I do so. I might drop my line manager a quick Whatsapp out of courtesy, but it's not expected.

In fact, given that the sun is shining and I have 2 hours before my next meeting, I'm going to walk round to the cafe in the village and buy a coffee and a doughnut - thanks for the reminder

I suppose my point is, what constitutes "being at work"?

For me that means being contactable. If I am not contactable i.e. I have an external appointment, then I mark that so in my diary so people know not to expect me to respond.

It does get quiet for me sometimes but I just look at my phone or pop some washing on. As long as I can hear the ping of a new email, IM or a call coming in that's fine.

I work for the NHS. My non clinical role is massively bigger than the time they pay me for (5 hours a week!). If they started micromanaging me I'd resign - so last Wednesday after 3.5 hrs of back to back Teams meetings I went for a lovely walk over lunch time to clear my head. Then I logged back in until 7pm.

This morning (my day off) I've already been online to chair a meeting and do some associated admin.

Pre-covid all my meetings were face to face - remote working is a mixed blessing I get to meetings I didn't used to be able to attend but do now work at home which I used to actively avoid as it made it easier to separate work and home by doing the two activities in different place.

For my clinical work which is face to face it's pretty evident when I'm there or not. Persistent latecomers get noted.

Our management are pretty pragmatic and don't make waves as long as the work is done.

I need to do a diary card to try to increase the admin time I'm paid for as I'm in danger of burning out due to the crazy workload.

Interestingly the only person at dp's company who didn't want to return to the office was the reason he recalled everyone full time, team of 13, 12 worked brilliantly from home, no monitoring needed, one failed targets, didn't pick up phone regularly when called and was late for zoom meetings. She left of her own accord 6 weeks after they returned to the office. Not everyone can wfh efficiently

Yes but only to keep a record so we can get TOIL for any extra time worked.

We can start and finish when we want, take breaks when we want, and manage our own hours over the course of the month.

I'm not doing 8 hours work a day thats slave labour

It really isn't.

I don't have to clock in and can go days ( sometimes weeks!) without seeing or speaking to my manager. I'm a university academic and regularly work over my contracted hours so I manage my time to suit me which can mean being away from my desk during the day but catching up on evenings and weekends.

I worked for a Chartered Surveyor in his own practice for 12 years and he loved to pile on pressure : everything was urgent and he would push and push. If he knew a Report took two hours to type up (from previous Reports typed), after an hour he would ask how much longer would he need to wait for it to be completed!! He seemed to get enjoyment from stressing his staff “Are you stressed yet?” he asked once.

I remember going to the toilet and he would say “Where is ....?” almost as if there wasn’t time for a toilet break, that’s what lunch break is for LOL !!

If he planned a rare break from work (he was a workaholic), he would imply that he was only away for a couple of days and would set masses of tasks and ring regularly to check progress. He would even dictate letters over the phone (I can write shorthand). He didn’t want anyone relaxing and, God forbid, skiving.

If any of us were WFH now he would be, literally, having kittens and there would be all sorts of deadlines placed on work given.

We have timesheets - you would not be considered to be working while out for a walk unless you were speaking to a client or a colleague and spending time with your family would not be considered work time either. Going to the loo making a coffee would be fine.
It all works on trust but if someone's output was low - whether they too slow/incapable of doing the job or were doing activities that would not be considered to be working - we'd have to take steps to address this - other people carry the burden it's not fair on the team.

This depends entirely on the role.

I am involved in a lot of RTO work, even the call centres are changing their views in staff in office all the time, cant move from the desk approach. They are all rationalising their space because if they can get rid and have people WFH they are in profit. The clock in clock out mentality is nuts, SIL has to do it to go for a wee.

Lawyers have moved on from hte 6min charge, mostly.

@Pinkroseuk

Wow amazed at how many take breaks and do other things. If I did this in my working day it would need to be about 12-15 hours long or I wouldn't get all my work done. Since wfh I'm regularly doing about 5-7 hours more a week as they say we don't have travel time to get to the office. I work through most lunches too otherwise I just wouldn't get the amount of work done I need to. I only stop for loo breaks and to get a drink which are always cold so don't even have the couple min wait for the kettle to boil!

They make you work more because you're not commuting? So loads of unpaid overtime? That sounds like an appalling place to work. You're a human being, not a machine, taking a lunch break is totally normal and healthy.

Since wfh I'm regularly doing about 5-7 hours more a week as they say we don't have travel time to get to the office.

This is awful, if your contracted hours are being worked they have no right to dictate you doing more just because you're no longer commuting on top of those contracted hours!

@Fupoffyagrasshole and @LostRobot I'd love to say to the kids at school- just going for a walk to clear my head 🤣🤣.

No break for me today until 1230 when I did get 20 mins and then straight into a meeting after school. All jobs are different and this is what is expected of some people. I can't see a way around if in certain professions but I'm not moaning as you know it's like that when you go into teaching- you learn good bladder control!!

I find going into office lately for a few days has really helped my WFH guilt as I’ve realised how much downtime and chatting time etc we really do have in office, so don’t feel constantly guilty for any WFH distractions that have essentially the same effect. I can see how in a call centre situation you might require staff to be monitored as it’s important to have X amount of people able to field incoming customer calls at any time, but for more project based roles it makes sense to offer flexibility.

OP unless your role is a call centre type role where it makes sense for them to monitor you in this way, if you are truly having a quiet day at work and don’t need to be at the computer, can’t you just like walk past your computer every so often and give the mouse a wriggle to stay active? Are they filming you?

I have to clock in and out. If I’m just popping to make a cup of tea then I would stay clocked in. Anything longer than 5/10 minutes I clock out. But that’s how it previously worked in my office anyway.

I work in the public sector, I’m not going to take the piss on the taxpayers’ pound. And if I could do my 30 hours a week job in 15 hours someone would come along and give me more work to do, we’re always stretched!

No we don't but we don't clock in anyway to be honest. Even when working in the building. We are based on trust here.

I didn't expect this to generate so much discussion! Thanks everyone for sharing.

I can't believe that some employees are being tracked down to the minute or are expected to work extra hours due to no commute! Doesn't it breed an unpleasant atmosphere/culture?

I am far from a skiver. I manage my own workload and don't miss deadlines or leave people hanging. But as others have mentioned, if we are able to take regular time away from the screen, we are able to be more productive. We're not designed to be sedentary staring at a monitor all day with no human contact. When our bodies or minds need a change of pace to allow us to concentrate (and stay healthy...), why are we being pressured to ignore these feelings for the sake of 'doing our hours'?

I'm much more able to concentrate on work if I can see my child for 20min before he goes to school (I start work early & do pick-ups), instead of battling with him to leave me alone so I can work. And no, I'm not going to start getting up at 5am so I can squeeze in more time in front of the laptop to make up the hours.

It's just been stressing me out, this constant conflict between 'doing the hours' and keeping myself and family healthy and well, you know?

@LemonRoses

Hah. No, definitely not. We have tolerance to all sorts of things. It’s good to be away from your screens, it’s good to go for a walk. It helps balance work and life if you can swap the washing around, stop for a chat with a neighbour or do a quick school run. Nobody really counts time but we have expectations around delivery and professionalism.

This. But because we are a time based service I do need to know when people are 'in'. That means a check by message first thing and shout when they take a long break. Otherwise provided performance is good and they aren't constantly AWOL when I need to contact them then it's all good.