Zero hours

[chocolatesauceandicecream]

Hi,

Zero hours contract. States in my contract 4 weeks notice. It will actually cost me more money to work my notice than to leave. Can this still stand as it is zero hours? Can i just leave? Can I decline my hours for the 4 weeks?

Yes you can decline your hours. Have a look on the government website and it clearly says on there that people on zero hour contracts do not have to work when asked and your employer cannot stop you working elsewhere.

We don’t know without seeing the contract. What does it say about hours and declining them? Do you work every week and how many hours do you normally do?

I had one for a care company. The rota's were worked out weekly, so you only ever gave a weeks notice in effect.

The reality was that plenty walked out and just didn't come back.

Care company. Rotas weekly. Hours completely vary.

Looking through contract it says they are inclined to give work when needed and it can be any time of day.

Does it say you can turn work down?

You’re zero hours so bank staff. You can decline or take on as many hours as you like. You could stop work today and that would be fine and not an issue. It doesn’t matter what the rota says, you’re on a zero hours contract and can choose to do zero hours. If you were contracted to work 30 instead of zero hours it would be totally different and you’d have to work your notice period

The zero hours contract works both ways, they can offer you 2 or 0 or 80 hours and you can choose wether to take the hours or not

Do you need a reference from them? Do they owe you any money (eg holiday pay)?

Even if you’re in breach of contract, which sounds unlikely if it’s a genuine 0 hour contract, the chances of them pursuing it legally are slim.

Don't need any pay/ref etc. Contract does clearly state zero hours but doesn't clearly state if you can turn down hours.

After emailing this morning they are insisting I do 4 weeks notice. So as I am zero hours I assume i can turn down all shifts for the 4 weeks?

I would, yes. Lack of clarity in the contract is a bit unhelpful but there’s nothing they can do about it anyway, and if you don’t need a reference or anything there’s no need to bend over backwards.

Hi everyone,

Woke up to an email how they will take £300 as I have not worked a notice period which is used to train new staff to cover me. (Apparently in my contract)

I have offered to give 4 weeks notice however I have said I'm not going to work any shifts in them weeks. My contract states nothing turning down shift but as gov website states I am not entitled to take shifts nor them give me them.

Where do I stand with this?

I can't advise op but bumping for you. Can you give ACAS a call? They should be able to advise.

They can't just deduct £300 from you! What's that even based on?

@chocolatesauceandicecream

Hi everyone,

Woke up to an email how they will take £300 as I have not worked a notice period which is used to train new staff to cover me. (Apparently in my contract)

I have offered to give 4 weeks notice however I have said I'm not going to work any shifts in them weeks. My contract states nothing turning down shift but as gov website states I am not entitled to take shifts nor them give me them.

Where do I stand with this?

That would be unlawful deduction of wages.

There are only very limited circumstances in law where an employer can deduct money from your wages and you have to agree to it.

@chocolatesauceandicecream

Hi everyone,

Woke up to an email how they will take £300 as I have not worked a notice period which is used to train new staff to cover me. (Apparently in my contract)

I have offered to give 4 weeks notice however I have said I'm not going to work any shifts in them weeks. My contract states nothing turning down shift but as gov website states I am not entitled to take shifts nor them give me them.

Where do I stand with this?

That is very unlikely to be lawful. If it is "apparently in my contract" what does the contract actually say on the matter?

Not sure the clause exactly as no copy of contract. But they said this: (Three Hundred Pounds) from the employees wage to recoup for mandatory training or as an alternative, if the Employee co-operates with the training and development of a replacement, then it would be deemed that sufficient notice had been given to allow us the Employer to find and train the replacement."

Obviously i am on a zero hours so how can they make me work for 4 weeks to find a replacement?

They can recoup training costs if it is made clear upfront (including amounts) however there is some debate as to whether this is enforcable as it might be "restraint of trade".

Sometimes it depends on how long you have been working for a company and how long they have had the benefit of your training. For example we send our engineers on costly gas courses. If a Gas Safe course costs £1,000 and someone leaves the week after they do it our contract stipulates they have to pay that back.

If they leave 3 years later we would be on much more shaky ground.

But the zero hours contract complicates things further because as you say, you are under no obligation to accept work and it is unlawful for your employer to try and prevent you seeking work elsewhere.

I'd get in touch with ACAS if I were you.

@chocolatesauceandicecream

Not sure the clause exactly as no copy of contract. But they said this: (Three Hundred Pounds) from the employees wage to recoup for mandatory training or as an alternative, if the Employee co-operates with the training and development of a replacement, then it would be deemed that sufficient notice had been given to allow us the Employer to find and train the replacement."

Obviously i am on a zero hours so how can they make me work for 4 weeks to find a replacement?

It is irrelevant. The clause is not lawful on many levels, but the really important one is that you cannot be required to work on a zero hour contract no matter what the contract says. It is either zero hours, or it is not. There is no grey area. Training their staff is their responsibility and not yours. And even if it were lawful to make a deduction, they cannot just dream up some figure out of thin air.

Tell them very clearly (and in writing) that you have a zero hours contract and that you are not required to accept any work offered, that you decline any further work with them, and that any attempt to make unlawful deductions from your wages will be met with the full force of the law, and they should expect an employment tribunal claim by return of post! Well, in truth you'd have to go to ACAS for conciliation first. But these crappy employers think they can get away with anything because most people let them. Don't be one that lets them.

”you cannot be required to work on a zero hour contract no matter what the contract says”

That’s incredibly misleading. It depends on a variety of factors. If it’s a genuine casual worker agreement, with worker status, that would be true, but a zero hours contract could just as easily be employment and there could easily be provision that an employee can’t refuse work.

Judging by the wording of the clause the OP has been quoted, the employer views her as an employee not as a casual worker.

OP you need to see a copy of your contract to see whether you are an employee or a worker and see what it says about refusal of work. Better to sort this out and prevent them making the deduction than refuse and then have to go through a legal process to try to recoup the money.

I bow to your superior knowledge flowery but how does that correlate with what this page on the gov.uk website says with regards to being able to refuse work

www.gov.uk/contract-types-and-employer-responsibilities/zero-hour-contracts

[quote Comefromaway]I bow to your superior knowledge flowery but how does that correlate with what this page on the gov.uk website says with regards to being able to refuse work

www.gov.uk/contract-types-and-employer-responsibilities/zero-hour-contracts[/quote]
That page refers to casual worker agreements. Zero hours contracts aren’t technically defined in law as such. Most employers describing something as zero hours will intend it to be a casual worker agreement, as the person has fewer rights and the employer has more flexibility. But it is perfectly possible to have a zero hours employment contract as well, and not uncommon, either by design or by default due to the nature of the relationship.

An employment status rather than casual worker status confers more rights on the individual, so it’s in their favour generally, but it might mean it’s not possible to decline hours offered.

Hi guys,

My contract does have a similar clause written into it. It is the same clause as detailed bellow but my contract does not state money.

Small claims court if they take the 300?

What did the training involve?

They have basically said i have signed an electronic copy with the clause about money but failed to send it over. And said the paper copy i have is different to the electronic.

Also other people have left without notice but only me getting charged🙄