Why do other people find me so threatening?

[Moomin]

I'm finding my new job so frustrating (I'm a teacher by the way). I'm in a position with no responsibility after 11 years of management (took this job at very short notice to get away from a bullying ex-boss and so that I can carry on working p/t for a while and be nearer home and the kids). I'm planning on 2 years at the most here before I go for promotion and more hours, either here or elsewhere if something suitable comes up. The dept I'm working in is quite old-fashioned and their results are OK-ish but not brilliant. They have been asked to look at how they improve things and they feel very 'got at' and don't think the Head has a point - they are blaming the kids. I can see LOADS of glaring holes in their curriculum and I'm finding it very very hard to try to keep my tongue between my teeth.

However, I do realise it's a sensitive issue and I've tried really hard to either keep a low profile or very very gently suggest certain things that might help. One of the people in charge of Key STage 3 actually asked me for advice the other day on how to improve standards in one particular area so we had a discussion, I went away and wrote her a (very gentle) list of key points she might want to look at and left it in her tray on Weds morning. Today she could hardly bear to even look at me, let alone acknowledge what I'd given her. SHe did everything she could to avoid talking about it and it really pissed me off! Even if she said 'thanks but no thanks - your ideas are crap' I'd at least be ale to respond!

There are another two people like her in the dept - they look at me with some kind of FEAR and fascination when I talk with any enthusiasm about the job, the kids, the lessons. I'm getting really really frustrated. I'm really trying not to be 'know-it-all' and overbearing. It's all so backwards though. I could cry.

Schools can be funny places

aint that the truth!

I would keep going as you are, giving advice when asked for it, contributing positively and confidently during dept/staff meetings. The incompetent will find you threatening, but then that is their problem not yours. Why should you hide your light under a bushel? Doesn't sound like it will be long before you are up for that promotion.

(I was in a similar postition once, only in a primary school. I was able to choose my area of responsibility when the head came to me asking me to take on a permanent contract, simply because I knew I was too good for them to want to lose me! Far off days now!)

So here's an update on my situation which has made me DREAD going into school tomorrow!Sorry it's a bit long

The teacher that I mentioned before (who ignored my work) then went onto use it in a meeting a week later. She hadn't discussed it with me AT ALL, but a lot of the work I'd done was replicated by her and given out to everyone with no mention of my having been the one to have done it in the 1st place. But then later in the meeting she gave me credit for just two bits of paper and just for good luck got my name wrong on the paperwork. I was mightily missed off... BUT figured that she wouldn't be able to 'run' with the work she'd nicked anyway as she had no idea how I'd come up with it, and I also felt that it showed up her insecurities more than ever and I felt a bit sory for her, tbh.

Anyway, this type of thing has gone on for the past few months. I feel a lot more settled in the job and am actually enjoying a lot of it now. But she's still a problem. Socially, she's fine with me but she will not talk to me about anything to do with work, which is just bizarre. She won't give me jobs to do, even when I offer; she asks everyone else except me if they have resources she can borrow or use. I've got 14 years experience and yet I'm never asked to offer anything. And she even held an impromptu meeting with the dept at lunchtime last week, which I missed as I didn't know it was going on. This meeting was quite important as it was planning for the rest of the year, so obviously I had no input in that at all.

I finally went to my HoD today as it had made me feel very stressed over the weekend. I explained everything and she was really supportive (of the other woman as well as me as the HoD knows how insecure she is). She suggested the three of us sit together after school, thrash it all out, clear the air and try to move forwards. I was pleased, as that's all I want really. HoD came into the office 10 mins after school and indicated to me that the meeting was a complete 'no go'. She'd broached it with this woman, who had obviously freaked out and wouldn't even dicuss it with the HoD, let alone me! It's made the matter much worse and I have NO idea how I'm going to broach things tomorrow. AT least before today, things were civil. But I'm glad it happened as it was making me feel very isolated & stressed being 'professionally ignored'.

Any advice?!!

Its very odd that the other person involved won't sit down to discuss matters. What did your HoD say about this person's reluctance to talk with you?

moomin, that sounds horrific.

not really sure how you might handle it: this woman sounds very insecure indeed. I suppose congratulating her on something work related may help. or, if she does behave as badly as you think she might, then write her a letter? (but if you do that you do need to put some positives in - there must be somehting!)

Moomin i dont think there is anything you can do the hod should be insisting on the meeting to encourage better relns between the two of you - not suggesting you are at fault at all, but her attitude to you must be affecting other areas of the dept.

I've really tried to support her by bigging her up about work she's done at different times, tried to be as co-operative and friednly and non-threatening as I can. Sometimes it seems to work.. but then sometimes I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall.

I know what you mean about the HoD being more insistent about meeting - but if the other woman has burst into tears / freaked out / whatever, she can't really frogmarch her into the meeting regardless, can she? (although I think I'd have a go if I was the HoD! )

I'm just dreading that first meeting with her tomorrow morning. Maybe she'll hide from me if she feels like that! The HoD is under a lot of pressure with all this going on, and I kind of feel guilty for adding to it... but the atmosphere is so tense, because of this woman and because of another poisonous old boot who has made most people's lives a misery at one time or another. I hate all this pussyfooting around though, it seems mental! I'd so prefer it if things could be sorted like grown-ups.

hod needs to speak privately with strange bint and insist on open conversations, she cannot be allowed to continue to be this way with you or anyone else. if anything hod position is undermined by her lack of people management !

So, practically-speaking, what would you do when you ran into her tomorrow morning? Smile? Say hello and pretend yesterday never happened? (which is probably what she would like as she's so in denial) and then let the HoD sort it? Won't that make me look like 'Teacher's Pet' or something, if I smile weakly at her?

its so difficult isnt it, i would just be yourself and say good morning, but you need to ask the hod if she has had any further thoughts on how to resolve this issue.

if i was really brave and a sh^t stirrer which i'm not, (really) after the good mornings i would say how disappointed i was that she couldnt make last nights meeting!
She is really terribles as excluding you from the planning meeting is tantamount to very subtle bullying, fair enough if yoy couldnt make it, but to not tell you, appalling manners.

God no! I won;t be referring to the meeting that she bottled last night but I'll smile and say hello and see how she reacts from there. No doubt she'll see my smiling as some sort of implicit criticism but there you go!...

oh FABULOUS
I'm writing this from my kitchen table, because I can't bear being at school during my free period. I'm going back in in a bit.

The HoD has completely bottled it.. apparently the other woman (D) was 'really upset' last night as well as being very angry at the accusations that she's acted unprofessionally towards me and has ignored me. She then said she was 'far too busy' to have a meeting with me and the HoD and that she wasn't going to discuss it again as she doesn't think there's a problem.

The HoD said to me this morning that, on relfection, maybe I am being rather 'sensitive' and reading problems into situations where there aren't any (!!!) I said (very calmly) that of course I would have to accept what the HoD and D have said and move on from there. BUT did the HoD not find it strange that, if there truely isn't a problem, D still won't talk to me/us or even take time to discuss what 'my' issue might be.

They've both stuck their heads in the sand and now I'm left feeling even worse than before. My guts have been rotten today - a clear sign of stress for me. I really don't know what to do, except just pretend it never happened and just move on and up when I can. It's utter madness though! And this D woman is wanting to go for HoD jobs in the near future!!! I did say to the HoD that D's management of the whole situation has been piss-poor in my opinion. ARGHHH

am I being over-sensitive???

Maybe its the axe you keep in your drawer .. you do sound a bit scary tbh

How would D woman cope with the responsibility of a HoD position? She needs to grow up a little first IMO.

Moomin: "The dept I'm working in is quite old-fashioned and their results are OK-ish but not brilliant. They have been asked to look at how they improve things and they feel very 'got at' and don't think the Head has a point - they are blaming the kids."

When you say they have been asked to look at how they improve things, who is 'they'? Is it an external body? Sorry, I am not a teacher so don't know enough about the governance of a school.

FWIW, Moomin, I would LOVE to work with someone like you.

lol at Totally's version of scary Moomin with an axe in her drawer... mwaaaaahh ha ha!!! (that's an evil larf if you didn't know)

blueshoes - Ta for vote of confidence! The key stage 3 results last summer were shite, so those are the results that are published. Firstly the Head will want to challenge these results as the buck stops with him as far as the school's rep goes. But then if we get an Ofsted inspection they will also want to see what the dept has done to improve these results. If results are really bad, Ofsted can investigate these separate to a whole-school inspection. Our dept is having an internal review soon (like a mini Ofsted), mostly because of the KS3 results - the Head wants to see why they were crap. Needless to say they've all started running round like headless chickens at this news .... Yes, these kind of things can be stressful, but on top of all the shite that goes on in the dept anyway, it's just like a chimps tea-party. NOT much fun at the moment...

Beggars belief that the HoD has backed down now when this woman D went ballistic. HoD actually said to me that the reason D had been ignoring me was probably because we're all so snowed under and stressed! Errr, all the more reason then to ask for support and a collaborative approach...???

Say it all really that she (D) went off at the deep end. Methinks we touched a very raw nerve. If the roles were reversed and I truely did not have a problem with someone I'd go straight to them and try to get to the bottom of it.

Moomim, think you need to start looking- sorry but if hod lacks support there will be more of this behavr to come. personally i would have invented a collaborative project to get you together you can always tell the truth at your exit interview
is the head new?

He's been there 5 years and turned the school around in most areas. We used to work together at my last school and we drove in toegther every day so we get on really well. Dh also knows his wife and ha came to my wedding. We used to socialise together a bit but have only got together socially once since I started in Sept, which I think is a good idea really - it has to be low key.

He knows a bit of how I feel about D and the HoD (supportive but weak), just in the context of him asking me what I thought of the dept and how they could improve, so I gave him my opinion - in a constructive and sensitive way. He, ideally, would like to change things in the dept, but politically, he knows it's going to take a while. I feel a real wrench, as he's a fantastic Head and he really saved my bacon getting me this job. But he also knows I'm ambitious. Can I stick it for another year, though, before dd2 goes to school - things may have changed a lot by then. But it's like swimming through treacle in the meantime.

Based on a few years of working, i would say that if things are bad now, they will only get worse.

I would speak to headmaster, but then again you might run the risk of going over HoD's head if you do this.

Perhaps start looking for a new job. Sorry.

Agree it might get worse. But there again, it might get better. There are a lot of things in favour of staying there for the time being, not least proximity to home (good for dds), great Head, good school and other staff are nice. There's lots going on there that I can get stuck in to.

I'm buggered if I'm just going to roll over and let that silly insecure cow trample all over me

I'm a great one for biding your time. Sometimes events have a way of coming to a head. See what the mini-Ofsted brings about.

Maybe she feels threatened because they are under-performing, 'got at' as you described, and you are friendly with the head. Maybe they think you been 'parachuted in'!

I think you just have to 'lead' by example and do the professional tasks you know will advance your career. Either they will come to cherish you for the wonder that you are and thank their lucky stars they've got you in their dept, but at least you'll be in the right position to move on when the time is right.

Moomin, I too think you shouldn't give it up because of D and HoD.

Maybe it is as the HoD says, your department is under pressure, insecure D already overstretched and emotional. Your HoD is a crap manager of course, that goes without saying. But hey, you made your point to D loud and clear. Whether she will meet you to thrash it out, she knows you are 'on to her'. But frustrating to you, I know, not to work things out especially since things would be so much better if you could work with D. D is terribly childish and immature, I must say with a certain disbelief. If D tries it on again (eg leave you out of a meeting), you should take note of the dates, occasion, circumstances. If it happens enough, only then raise it again to the HoD. It will be harder at that point for the HoD to call you over-sensitive.

Otherwise, you can just smile breezily at D and HoD and everyone and just carry doing your good work. Politics sucks, but if it is isolated to a few individuals and you have got the Head on your side (whom you can discreetly keep up to date with proceedings in a light way, from time to time), you will be fine. As you said, it is only for 2 years. That will fly by in a flash.

All the best.

Just read Heated's post. Totally agree. The long needed external scrutiny is what is weighing on D's mind. You are clearly competent and she is not - that is why she plagiarises your ideas so blatantly. Running scared of having to account. I don't know why she does not want to work with you and learn from your experience to turn things around, rather than turn tail and freeze you out. Can't understand it, but these people exist.

Hi Moomin. Glad you feel like sticking up for yourself.