To consider training to become a GP?

[Inpersuitofhappiness]

I can't believe I'm posting this, I have pretty low confidence in myself, and this is something I've always thought was beyond me, but I have always had an interest in all things medical.

I've just turned 30, and a few times I've been told that I should consider getting into the medical profession. I've always shrugged it off, because I don't view myself as smart enough. One person who recommended it was a GP himself and said that its just hard work to get there.

Is it really doable for the fairly average person if they work hard?

Is it too late?

Is it a career even worth having? I know there are so many GPs leaving the profession with the way the NHS has been over the past several years atleast.

There's part of me that feels like I could really help people.

I already have a career that I don't mind, its genuinely the interest in helping people a bit more thats making me want the change.

I'm hoping I might be able to speak to people who have maybe done it, or know people who have. What do people do if they fail their training?

You absolutely can go into medicine with an access course. I have a friend who did so, went to study medicine at university and is now a doctor. They were just under 30 went they started.

Have a look at health careers OP - there is a huge spectrum of jobs you can work towards. I personally would keep your options open whilst you get your A levels or equivalent, and take some professional advice on how best to achieve your goals.

@lovelemoncurd

At first I thought you must have really good GCSEs and A levels when I read your initial post and that's why you were being encouraged to become a GP. Now I read you haven't even done GCSEs!

Why don't you just get those under your belt then see eh?!

You will no doubt change your mind once you realise it's 15 more years of study!

The OP HAS got GCSEs. She has corrected that misconception.

I’m a doctor OP and I love it (not a GP though) but I would do it again. There were certainly people your age on my course and that I’ve met through training and they generally had a lot to offer. And I think increasingly there is an appetite for widening access.

I think the main things that you need to make sure you’ve properly thought about in addition to the academic part are:

1. Money
2. Geography

I think as you’ve not done a degree before you can have student loan and may be eligible for some grants as you have a child and no income but you need to properly
look at this as it might be really tight and hard to fit in extra work around degree and family. Check what you’re entitled to.

1. As you have a 13 year old I presume you’re not desperate to move all around the country. Have a look at what medical schools are near you that you could reasonably get to and whether you fit their profile. It’s actually fine and good to chat to the admissions tutors and that might be really insightful for you. You would be already limiting yourself to probably one or two though so getting in is a bigger ask than usual.

Once qualified you rank your chosen deanery for foundation training, this is based on a score but there is an element of it feeling quite random. And the deaneries are quite big e.g. Scotland is one, Wales is one, Kent, Surrey and Sussex are one, The South West has now merged and includes Cheltenham down to Truro. You do get to rank preferences within this but again it’s not guaranteed and you will have to move between hospitals. Your child would be older but it still might be a bit of upheaval.

Go for it OP - A levels or access course.

I'm a doctor and love my job. Qualified over 20 years ago.

FWIW I disagree with the poster earlier who said that medicine needs fewer 'intelligent' people and more grafters. Anyone can follow a protocol, but what makes a good doctor is the ability to see the bigger picture, question, challenge the science. This shouldn't be at the expense of interpersonal skills, but medicine does not need to be dumbed down.

My daughter and future son in laws are GPs. It’s going to take longer than the minimum ten years.
Your first step would be to get some A levels in sciences. Good grades required. It might be worth talking to admissions at a med school but suspect they’d all want to see strong evidence of ability to understand and assimilate pharmacology and biochemistry knowledge to a high level.
Then maybe sit the BMAT or UKCAT to see whether your scores are high enough. In training it’s less about ‘helping people’ and more about hard academic graft. The average person probably couldn’t do it because of academic rigour and amount of work required.

Then you need to consider whether you’re prepared to move around to attend a far flung medical school, for placements and to wherever you get posted for the foundation programme.
Then there’s family work balance to consider. If you don’t yet have children do you not want them? If you do, are they happy to move around? Do you have good support from a partner or family?

What about money? Can you live well enough on student income or do you have extra support or resources? Medicine isn’t cheap. Do you have a car and could you afford to run it, as a student? Could you survive on foundation programme pay including exam costs?

How do you feel about being directed by people much younger than you? How do you feel about shift work with little control over your work pattern or leave periods?

It’s not insurmountable but it’s thirteen years of hard slog to qualify from GCSE. My daughter is pretty exhausted at the moment, long hard days and lots of abusive patients. She works every other weekend in a hospice as well as her GP post for extra money. At the moment she doesn’t see daylight.

@daisypond
This is very unusual and I presume that your friend must have had other relevant qualifications and experience alongside the access course.
It would be wrong to encourage the op to do an access course with a view to doing medicine, as it is extremely unlikely ( if not impossible) that she will be successful.
If she has her heart set on medicine she needs to do A Levels first. If she's considering another health related profession, then an access course is a great idea.

@ImBoredAgain

I don’t know if your specifically looking at GP but without any form of further education currently, this would be a long time studying and at 30 I assume you’d prefer to ‘earn as you learn’? Have you considered an on the job route such as access course around current commitments, then apply for say an ambulance service and work through ECA, technician, paramedic then applying for physician associate which can be done part time and paramedic qualification would gain access to this. Then you can do further training as a doctor whilst still working. Not a short route but all earning whilst learning, and no route to becoming a gp is ‘easy’

Don’t try to do this. This advice is wrong. There is no way around the fact that it is a “long time studying”. The above won’t work as any kind of short cut. You cannot do “further training as a doctor while still working”. Further training = the 5 years medical school, foundation years and the compulsory GP training you have to do to become a GP. I.e. the exact same training you would have to do without doing any of the ambulance service part the above poster suggests. There is a very defined route through which you train as a doctor and then specialise and there aren’t ways of missing steps of this.

For what it is worth OP, it sounds like something you should explore a bit more and if you do decide it is something you want to pursue you should go into it with your eyes open. It won’t be quick or easy, but not easy doesn’t mean impossible. As probably evidenced by the posts by doctors on here, many doctors are on the negative side of realistic. If those posts haven’t convinced you it’s a bad idea and have actually made you even more determined then you’ve probably got the right personality for medicine!

I do like my job, but it really isn’t so much about helping people-that’s the east bit. Often people either don’t want to be helped, can’t be helped or are unrealistic and ungrateful. There’s mountains of admin and paperwork and management if you’re a GP partner. It isn’t just about seeing patients. Would I do it if I had my time again? I’m not sure. I would say no, but I suspect that’s partly because I look at other careers which I actually know nothing about through rose tinted glasses.

@CakeQueen87 I did one of those courses and off the back of it got three medicine interviews and one offer. I didn't do very well at interview clearly but the course certainly didn't hold me back. I ended up declining my place and going into allied health care instead which I have bouts of regretting but it probably turned out for the best. The course set me up very well as I have a huge number of credits, compared to typical access courses.

Anyway, my point is that I'm aware how hard it is but that I have seen many of my friends tread that path. One of them is now a GP in fact.

It's difficult but if you work hard and are strategic, it's doable. For me, the academics were never an issue as I knew I was capable on that score is it was more about selecting the universities which were open to a non-trad candidate. You have to be ruthless about that and potentially be prepare to move across country. Everyone I studied with was happy to do that, even with kids. When you go into medicine as a non trad applicant, you are committing to putting the rest of your life on hold for a good while.

@Ffsffsffsffsffs

Have you considered the financial cost of this op?

My baby(!) brother finished his f2 year last summer and the financial cost is staggering. He couldn't manage any part-time work during the first 5 years - the academic stuff is brutal and once he got onto placements his schedule was completely unreliable. A few bank shifts in the quieter, regular placements were all he could manage. He went to a top/expensive uni, so has course fees and living expenses loans to repay. For 5 years.

The drop-out/failure rate was around 40% for each year, that was fully expected and explained when they started on day 1. That's despite them all having shit-hot gcses and a levels and having passed the entry requirements.

Can you afford 5 years with zero income op? (I believe the foundation years are paid, no idea how gp training works)

Is this a UK medical school? I don't think there is one with a drop out rate of anything approaching 40%. Drop out rates for medicine in the uk are typically low. I think your brother is talking bollox 😅😅😅

@misselphaba
That's very interesting. As I said I have lots of experience in this area and at one point ( admittedly a few years ago now) spoke to every medical school in the country on behalf of an access student, to see whether they would consider them. Those that would consider it wanted an A Level science subject as well. Having since worked in university admissions I know that the real picture is that the majority won't even consider students from a non transitional back ground for competitive courses like medicine.

I'd be really interested in knowing what university you were accepted to and how successful the other people on your course were? I just don't see how a one year course can prepare you for medicine in the same way as two years of A Levels. Unless of course there are some very unique circumstances, such as lots of relevant work experience or a prior a level.

I think the other thing for the op to bare in mind is that she will need to be geographically very flexible and needs to be prepared to move to take up a place. Often in my experience, this was the stumbling block with adults returning to education, when they did not get a place at a local university, they were not prepared/ able to relocate their family to undertake further training.

I just don't see how a one year course can prepare you for medicine in the same way as two years of A Levels

Scottish highers are only one year? Many scots uni’s will take outstanding non science a’level students as they can do a one year “pre med” course and continue on to 1st year medicine as a second year.

[quote CakeQueen87]@daisypond
This is very unusual and I presume that your friend must have had other relevant qualifications and experience alongside the access course.
It would be wrong to encourage the op to do an access course with a view to doing medicine, as it is extremely unlikely ( if not impossible) that she will be successful.
If she has her heart set on medicine she needs to do A Levels first. If she's considering another health related profession, then an access course is a great idea. [/quote]
As long as she does the Access to Med course it won't make a difference. It's the only one that is suitable. I agree about general Access courses, but you're wrong in this specific case.

I also work in HE btw.

If you have the desire to help people and problem solve - physio therapy, occupational therapy and speech therapy are best done by people who can think for themselves to come up with creative solutions. Good luck OP you are not too old to do something new - we'll be working for a long time!

@titchy
I'm aware of the different types of access course.
Do you have any stats on how many people are accepted on to medicine from an access to medicine course each year? I'd be shocked if it is even in double figures. Plus there are only a couple of places in the country that offer the course. Therefore it's an unlikely if not impossible way to qualify to become a doctor.
I'm not sure why people always expect there to be a shortcut to everything in life. Is it possible for someone to go on and qualify as a doctor in later life, absolutely but it will be extremely hard work and the best chance for getting onto a degree will be A Levels

If you like the solving problems side of medicine/science there’s also the academic route.

Get on to a science degree, PhD, and into reaearch.

3 year degree, if you do end up with a good class of degree PhD’s are often funded, and there is much more flexibility with learning.

You can even do your degree PT if money is an issue. I knew several techs in research labs who got day release to do their degree alongside working, and then moved onto a PhD in the same lab.

[quote CakeQueen87]@daisypond
This is very unusual and I presume that your friend must have had other relevant qualifications and experience alongside the access course.
It would be wrong to encourage the op to do an access course with a view to doing medicine, as it is extremely unlikely ( if not impossible) that she will be successful.
If she has her heart set on medicine she needs to do A Levels first. If she's considering another health related profession, then an access course is a great idea. [/quote]
No. I don’t think it’s that unusual. My friend did have a degree already, in a humanities subject -Politics, I think - and A levels - all in humanities subjects. They had no healthcare / science background. They did the one-year access course. That’s what it’s designed for.

@CakeQueen87 I am a doctor and entered via an access to medicine course. In my year alone at my Russell group medical school were 6 people who studied access courses for entry. You’re right that far more people enter with a levels, but it is not an impossible route at all

I received 4 interviews and 4 offers for medicine. I have never heard of anyone who did a levels having all offers, but I did with an access course

@WaitingForEgg
Ok well i stand corrected then. I've worked at more than one top Russel group university and and we would not have accepted some one on the basis of an access course alone. They would have to have had a prior degree, a levels or relevant experience, as with @daisypond example.

Do you mind me asking if you had any other experience or qualifications before completing the access course?

Things have clearly moved on a lot in the 5 years since I worked in Higher education

@CakeQueen87 I had a nursing diploma (a few credits short of a degree). But out of the 6 of us in my year I was the only one with this. I had no Alevels but very good GCSEs. Others had mixed experience but no prior degree (1 x ex army, 1 x ex DJ etc).

My access course was extremely extremely challenging. Minimal holidays, constant assignments and testing, and I required all distinctions for medicine entry. I believe the most popular access course is the east Anglia one (I did not attend this one) which sends over a dozen students to medical degrees annually.

As far as I am aware you could not “choose” to study access instead of Alevels ... so if you were 21 or under access was not accepted. You needed to be a truly mature student who was retraining, and therefore access was a more suitable option. This was in 2013

Can you do top up degrees? I've got a BSc home 2:1 from a Russell Group Uni in an Earth/Environmental science type (without quoting the exact degree as it'd be outing). Also have a PGCE. Would I need to start from scratch as it were? My maths isn't brilliant, would that be a problem? I've always thought my maths as a barrier for medicine. B at GCSE and good enough to do the PGCE and previous degree.

Hons not home

@WaitingForEgg
Ok yes we would absolutely have considered an application of someone with a nursing diploma plus access course. I'm really surprised that the other people would have been accepted without something equivalent to this, like top A Level grades in a non science subject perhaps.However, it has been a few years since I worked in this area so clearly things have moved on!