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Original poster

Same role - different pay ?sex discrimination

27 replies

londonbrick · 28/12/2020 19:44

I've been employed in my role for the past 18 months. In that time we've had two admin staff that came and went and since July this year I've been undertaking my role as well as the admin role. It's been very pressured.

As our work is continually escalating - senior management eventually agreed funding for two new members of staff (the two new members and I are employed via an agency) who joined our small team in November & December.

Part of my duties are to train the new admin (female) to undertake the admin I have been doing. The other new team member has the same role as me but is male.

I suspect both may be on a higher pay grade than me. Does anyone know if there is a legal way to find out?

OP posts:
flowery · 29/12/2020 07:59

Have a look at this summary of your rights as an agency worker.

You’re entitled to the same basic pay as a permanent employee doing the same job, assuming various conditions are met.

Your agency should be seeking information about pay from the end hirer, to ensure compliance. If these people are new, that may not have filtered through. Your first point of call is your agency.

Original poster
londonbrick · 29/12/2020 10:37

Thanks for your reply flowery.

I have put this in writing to my agency (the male colleague is employed by the same one) but they've just said the main company who employs us would know about discrimination and take it very seriously.

I'm not sure this is the truth and unclear as to what my next step should be.

OP posts:
june2007 · 29/12/2020 10:49

A few things. Have you read there contracts? Do you know if they are exactley the same roles?
If the female colleague is on a higher grade is she on the same grade as the male/ (Because then it wouldn,t be sex discrimination).
Do you know what everyone is earning?

flowery · 29/12/2020 11:32

Ok sorry I missed that you were all agency workers. Whether the end hirer would know about discrimination and take it seriously is entirely irrelevant. That company doesn't employ you. The question is whether your actual employer takes it seriously.

If they are just batting you back I would raise a grievance tbh. Against the agency, not the end hirer.

Original poster
londonbrick · 30/12/2020 18:57

Thank you again flowery - just what I needed - I'll go back to them with something along the lines of your post above.

I don't know what everyone is earning june - although my line manager would and even though I've asked she's just said she doesn't know.

OP posts:
Original poster
londonbrick · 19/01/2021 14:39

The saga continues. The agency state they are unable to confirm what pay my male colleague is on due to the Data Protection Act.

I'm planning to reply to say they don't need to tell me what he is earning but that the Equality Act 2010 states it's unlawful to pay a female worker less than a male.

I've previously asked for a copy of the grievance procedure - pretty sure they don't have one - as it's not been sent. They have asked what resolution I would like though so I've just repeated again that I wish to be paid the same as my male colleague.

OP posts:
JustWatchMe · 19/01/2021 15:33

@londonbrick

The saga continues. The agency state they are unable to confirm what pay my male colleague is on due to the Data Protection Act.

I'm planning to reply to say they don't need to tell me what he is earning but that the Equality Act 2010 states it's unlawful to pay a female worker less than a male.

I've previously asked for a copy of the grievance procedure - pretty sure they don't have one - as it's not been sent. They have asked what resolution I would like though so I've just repeated again that I wish to be paid the same as my male colleague.

What if he is paid less than you - do you still want to be paid the same as him?
Original poster
londonbrick · 19/01/2021 17:42

I'm pretty sure he's paid more than me.

OP posts:
ClaudiaWankleman · 19/01/2021 17:45

Would you feel able to just ask your male colleague how much he earns? I know it could feel weird but he is allowed to discuss it if he wishes, and may wish to if he understands why you are asking.

JustWatchMe · 19/01/2021 17:57

@londonbrick

I'm pretty sure he's paid more than me.
How? Is it just a feeling?
Original poster
londonbrick · 19/01/2021 18:06

I did ask him claudia - he said he didn't know because he hadn't been paid yet. (this was obviously not long after he started)

I also asked my line manager - who's employed by the company our agency supplies us to work for - and is normally very candid however I was also told they didn't know either.

The new employee was directly recruited by my line manager - I find it difficult to believe he was recruited without anyone discussing his pay.

OP posts:
Nomaigai · 19/01/2021 19:57

But you can legally pay two people different amounts for the same post if there is material non-discriminatary reason for that. What makes you think this is discrimination? You've said you suspect they may both be paid more than you but one is a woman.

I'm not saying it's not an equal pay claim, but it seems a strange thing to jump to on the facts.

JustWatchMe · 19/01/2021 20:56

@Nomaigai

But you can legally pay two people different amounts for the same post if there is material non-discriminatary reason for that. What makes you think this is discrimination? You've said you suspect they may both be paid more than you but one is a woman.

I'm not saying it's not an equal pay claim, but it seems a strange thing to jump to on the facts.

There are no facts - just suspicion.
Original poster
londonbrick · 19/01/2021 21:06

Apologies for the confusion - the female new team member is performing an admin role - different job title - whereas the male new colleague is performing the same role as me with the same job title.

OP posts:
TDMN · 19/01/2021 23:13

Hi OP, fairly certain your line manager isnt allowed to just tell you what someone else is paid either, confidentiality etc. I know at our place managers arent allowed to just tell you someone elses pay - not sure it its a legal thing or just a contractual -Just in case you were getting frustrated at them!
I think your best bet is as you mention, asking them to confirm in writing that all 3 of you are employed to do the same work under same conditions for same pay. Can i ask why you believe he's being paid differently to yourself?

Nomaigai · 20/01/2021 03:26

I realised that the female colleague was doing a different role. There were two people who joined. You think both are paid more than you. The one doing the same job as you is a man. You seem to have launched into sex discrimination as the reason for no reason whatsoever. Employers can pay men more than women for the same role, it's just that they need to have a material reason for it that isn't related to sex discrimination. So (for example) if the new worker has better qualifications than you, more experience or the market has changed and they needed to pay more to recruit.

It's very common for new starters to be paid more than existing staff. Rather than going around shouting 'discrimination' on the basis of nothing, I recommend you concentrate on your value to the business and why they should be paying you the same as others.

It's not that it's not discrimination for certain, it's just that on the facts there's nothing to suggest it is. It's an odd thing to jump straight to.

Nomaigai · 20/01/2021 03:27

Correcting myself - employers can pay a man more than a woman for the same role (they can't pay men in general more than women).

Original poster
londonbrick · 20/01/2021 07:12

Thank you @Nomaigia for the explanation. My line manager has previously told me what other people are earning across the business which is probably unprofessional. I guess I'm getting frustrated as I originally requested a pay rise when our previous admin left in summer 2020 and have been chasing them ever since. I'm pretty exhausted from the amount of work I have been doing since then and even though the new people will take pressure off in time I'm spending extra time training them.

The man in the same role as me has less qualifications and experience however he does have a longer journey to work and I also appreciate finding people is more difficult at this time.

The previous admin role was undertaken by a female employed direct by the company, had been there for some years and was on higher pay than me even with my qualifications and experience however they left due to the pressure. I guess it's also about not feeling appreciated for the work I do.

OP posts:
BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 20/01/2021 07:17

What is making you think that he is being paid more?

Whyistheteacold · 20/01/2021 07:27

So there is absolutely nothing to suggest he is being paid more than you other than the fact that no one will tell you his salary... 🙄 You have no right at all to be told someone else's wage, it is private and its quite rude for you to keep hounding everyone. Even if he is being paid more than you, there are a multitude of reasons why he is on a higher wage that have nothing to do with him being a male. If I were him, and you were snivelling around desperately asking everyone what my wage was I would get quite pissed off and probably report you for harassment. Concentrate on yourself. If you don't think you are being paid enough for the work you do then that is a separate issue that you need to discuss with your employer.

Namenic · 20/01/2021 07:58

Given everyone’s comments here it would seem it is hard to push for equal pay seeing as this kind of thing is hard to find. If people are serious about equal pay, we need to have transparency. How to do that with data protection is hard.

Namenic · 20/01/2021 07:59

It’s probably much easier to look for another job at a different company.

JustWatchMe · 20/01/2021 08:07

@Namenic

It’s probably much easier to look for another job at a different company.
If you think men are paid more than you just because they are men and you are a woman, that issue won't be solved by moving company. Unless there are very public pay grades - with no banding - that's a fairly limiting way to chose an employer.
Nomaigai · 20/01/2021 08:36

It is hard to push for equal pay but the only reason the OP thinks that there is sex discrimination is that her colleague is male. There's literally nothing to suggest that this is sex discrimination rather than the OP being screwed over more generally (or her employer not placing as much value on her as she thinks they should do).

OP, I would be very wary about bandying about sex discrimination claims. Technically you have to prove salary differential and the employer (the agency) has to prove that there is a non-discriminatary reason for the difference. In this situation I suspect they could. I'd instead focus on the real issue which is you think you're underpaid. Get comparators from outside your company (look at job adverts, talk to recruiters) to build a case on why you deserve more.

daisychain01 · 21/01/2021 08:03

@Namenic

Given everyone’s comments here it would seem it is hard to push for equal pay seeing as this kind of thing is hard to find. If people are serious about equal pay, we need to have transparency. How to do that with data protection is hard.
It depends who those "people" are - companies who are committed to ensuring they treat both male and female employees fairly, release annual Gender Pay Gap numbers - they tend to be larger companies with a big enough workforce that the numbers are highly aggregated and they don't need to get down into the weeds of individual pay differences because Person A has specialist experience that Person B doesn't have and hence why Person A is paid more for that extra value add.

OP your male colleague telling you he "doesn't know" how much he's paid is rubbish, but he has no obligation to tell you how much he earns if he chooses not to.

If you believe you deserve an increment you need to focus on your value-add and what extra you've delivered to justify your increased rate of pay. At the end of the day, if your agency cannot get their client to agree to a better rate for you, then you've either got to accept that, or find a different role. Trying to prove discrimination in this instance won't get you very far I'm afraid.