It's an annual leave one! Any HR experts?!

[QNCQNC]

My leave year runs Jan-Dec. I started on 1st September so I will have worked four whole months in this leave year (i.e. exactly one third of the year)

My leave entitlement is 27 days plus bank holidays (of which there are eight).

So is my entitlement for this leave year, 9 days plus one third of eight? So a total of 11.6 days?

My work are saying I just have nine days, and seem to be forgetting about the bank holiday side of things. As there is only one more bank holiday left this calendar year then they are only giving me ten days instead of 11.6. Is this fair?

My employer would agree with your calculation . (I'm not an HR specialist however)

This is how we would do it in my work if you are full time. 9 days is your entitlement to leave and you are entitled to the bank holidays that happen in that window.

Check your contract and your holiday policy.

They sound quite tight!

Side point, but assuming you're in the UK, there are two bank holidays left this year, Christmas Day and Boxing Day. Not sure about the answer to your main question though!

Also check that they don't have some provision which means that you only get to take holiday after probation.

Yep that is how It would work at mine to. Annual leave entitlement is pro-rated but bank holidays just fall when they fall. You can't take a days leave for back holidays that didn't occur in the period you were employed.

@TheBestSpoon

Side point, but assuming you're in the UK, there are two bank holidays left this year, Christmas Day and Boxing Day. Not sure about the answer to your main question though!

You are so right, I totally forgot about Boxing Day!

So, 11 instead of 11.6. I suppose I'm not getting diddled all that much then...?!

I thought you only got the bank holidays you were there for as the assumption is you would have had the others in previous role.

In my job we get 25 days plus bh plus Christmas closure days but if you don't start until March the Christmas days don't get added on. (Leave year September-September) They are more of a bonus

I think both annual leave and bank holidays should be pro rata, so if you worked 33% of the year you are entitled to 33% of bank holidays.

If you'd worked March to August - so the most bank holiday heavy period of the year - would you have to expected them to deduct it from any leave you had left at the end because you'd had 'too many' bank holidays?

@Hardbackwriter

If you'd worked March to August - so the most bank holiday heavy period of the year - would you have to expected them to deduct it from any leave you had left at the end because you'd had 'too many' bank holidays?

Yeah I think I would really?!

As it's only a 0.66 difference then I think I will just leave it...

Your annual leave entitlement is exactly that, it’s the bit that’s personal to you, calculated based on when you start/leave the company for any part years you work.

Bank holidays are not personal, they fall when they fall, so you’ll either benefit from them if you’re there, or not if you aren’t. Why should your employer be worse off because you joined in a part of the year when there are less bank holidays? Presumably, you might have worked for another company previously who did pay you for those same holidays?

I’ve had a fair few jobs and never had any company work things out any differently to that, nor would I expect them to.

27 days isn’t a terrible annual leave entitlement either; plenty of people still get the statutory minimum which is considerably less.

Your A/L will be prorated (27/3 =9).

I'm confident that your bank hol entitlement won't be prorated by percentage, but rather by the bank holidays that fall during your period of employment. Unfortunately September - December is not particularly bank holiday heavy.

So you'll be entitled to 9 days AL plus 2 days for bank holiday (Xmas day / Boxing Day) so you're due 11 days, not the 10 your work have said you are due. But you're not due 1/3 of the entire year's bank holidays, rather just the bank hols that fall sept - dec.

Each company will treat bank holidays differently. Some will give them when they fall, strictly the policy should be pro rota the 8 days by the service you have. But personally I wouldn't be arguing over half a day.

My work would do it the way lion describes. You get a proportional amount of the 27 days to take when you want, and then whatever bank holidays are left in the year. The bank hols are separate from your AL entitlement.

Are you sure they are even considering bank holidays OP? Unless you are part time or are expected to work bank holidays most companies won't include them in holiday calculations

Bank holidays are part of you annual paid leave entitlement, you just don't get any choice of when you take them, that's all.
For pro-rating, you are absolutely correct, you are entitled to 4/12 of 27+8 = 11.6
It doesn't matter when the bank holidays fall at all, otherwise it could mean part time people are entitled to loads more/less equivalent paid leave depending on what days they work, which is obviously not correct.

Depends on the company I guess. Our public holidays (as they prefer to call bank holidays) are added onto our leave these days and pro-rata’d because we are a
massive company with 100,000 + employees spread across the globe and multiple working patterns over 24/7, 365 days a year.

You're not being 'diddled ' at all! Why would you be entitled to bank holidays you haven't been employed for? Same as not being entitled for annual leave you've not worked for.

@RainbowMum11

Bank holidays are part of you annual paid leave entitlement, you just don't get any choice of when you take them, that's all. For pro-rating, you are absolutely correct, you are entitled to 4/12 of 27+8 = 11.6 It doesn't matter when the bank holidays fall at all, otherwise it could mean part time people are entitled to loads more/less equivalent paid leave depending on what days they work, which is obviously not correct.

Completely disagree with this, I work in HR and have never worked for a company that would pro rate bank holidays in the year you start.

That would effectively mean new starters joining at the end of the year would get extra holiday across the year, because they would have taken off the bank holidays with their previous employer and get a pro rated portion of bank holidays from before their start date with their new employer too.

For me the clue is how it is written in your contract, 27 days plus bank holidays. Not 35 days including bank holidays.

You get to take the bank holidays when they fall, there are 2 left this year so you will get to take those, and your contractual holiday entitlement is pro rated

Just to add I agree with what rainbow mum says if you are looking at part timers (whose bank holidays will be pro rated because they are at risk of missing out/benefitting depending on their working pattern) but not for a full time member of staff who just happens to start part way through the years. It's like comparing apples and pears

I have also never come across an organisation that pro rates bank holidays for a regular full time employee that typically does not work bank holidays.

So I would expect you to get 27/3= 9 days annual leave plus whatever BHs are left.

When I worked 4 days a week at my company I got 4/5 holiday days plus 6.5 days for the bank holidays. Any that fell on days I worked, I needed to book off with the available leave entitlement.

It all depends on your contract.

If your leave entitlement is 27 days plus bank holidays and you are full time then you take bank holidays as they occur.

If your leave entitlement is 35 days including bank holidays then everything is pro-rated.

Definitely no pro rata entitkement to bank holidays to new starters.

If came straight from another role, did they take back some money from you having taken more BH than you were entitled pro rata?

It would have to works both ways.