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Original poster

Foreign workers - does this woman have any rights?

33 replies

saadia · 08/10/2007 14:18

Without wishing to give too much away for confidentiality reasons, does anyone know what rights workers have who come form abroad to work as domestic servants? I know of someone through school and her working conditions sound pretty unfair (eg never any time off). Her English is not very good so communication between us is not always clear, but I can't believe her employers are allowed to treat her like this.

OP posts:
contentiouscat · 08/10/2007 14:31

Sorry dont now anything about this but I know of similar cases in my area where the wealthy exploit foreign workers, they rely on them not knowing their rights. Difficult if her english is not good but can she get any help from citizens advice or does she not want to rock the boat?

Original poster
saadia · 08/10/2007 14:38

thanks for replying contentiouscat, yes she is afraid of rocking the boat and keeps telling me not to tell anyone.

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flowerybeanbag · 08/10/2007 14:57

saadia is she legslly employed - does she have a valid work permit?

BrownSuga · 08/10/2007 15:02

even in the middle east where they hire indians and filipino's as domestics they have 1 day off per week.

if she has a work permit, then surely she is entitled to uk provisions, min wage, max working hours, time off, etc...

MeMyGhostAndI · 08/10/2007 15:10

The employers may be abusing the position knowing she may not be able to complain effectively against them. Unfortunately it happens very often, even when they are perfectly legal in the country. (Know of someone who as a EC citizen has the right to work here, she only has one day off every 2 weeks, but it took him so much time to find the job that she is putting up with it as she doesn't want to loose it.

flowerybeanbag · 08/10/2007 15:20

Assuming she is employed legally, she has the same rights as anyone else, see here for ACAS' brief guide to employment rights, look at 'rights at work' menu down the left-hand side.

However, the difficulty is exercising those rights, particularly if her English isn't good - she won't be keen on the idea of a Maybe a trip to the CAB would be useful, you could go with her perhaps? They will be able to help her with her basic rights and may be able to help her write a letter to her employers pointing out her rights - they will be assuming she won't go to anyone 'official'.

flowerybeanbag · 08/10/2007 15:21

good grief, one-handed typing. She won't be keen on a tribunal claim I imagine.

Original poster
saadia · 08/10/2007 15:46

Thanks everyone. I think she probably doesn't know if she has a work permit, she says her employers keep all her papers also she can't read English at all. I will mention to her about getting legal advice from CAB.

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flowerybeanbag · 08/10/2007 16:00

where is she from saadia? Here is a list of the European countries for which no work permit is needed. Restrictions apply to Bulgaria and Romania.

If she's not from any of those places she can check in her passport if she's unsure - there should be a stamp in there which will say.

Do get her to go to CAB if you can, but you may want to just investigate a bit to find out what her status is with regard to her right to work here beforehand.

eleusis · 08/10/2007 16:07

Saadia, If she is a live in emploee she does not have the same rights as everyone else. For eample, there is no minimum wage for a live-in. And I think that they are exempt for maximum hours of work, but I'mnot sure about this.

Also, I think if you come in as a doestic worker your visa entitles you to work for the family who sponsored you. Again, I'm not sure. But surely the all knowing google could tell you what the restrictions are on a domestic worker visa.

Even if she does not hold the paper work, I would think a visa number would be stamped in her passport.

Original poster
saadia · 08/10/2007 16:08

Thanks flowerybeanbag. She's from India, her employers have her passport. Will see if she can get hold of it to have a look. So if she doesn't have a work permit does that mean she must be illegal?

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Original poster
saadia · 08/10/2007 16:13

Thanks eleusis - good idea, just googled and things seem clearer now. Only problem is that she is dependant on these people and her fate is at their whim. They could send her back if she says anything I guess.

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flowerybeanbag · 08/10/2007 16:17

sorry should have clarified that accommodation can be offset against minimum wage - I just assumed she didn't live in.

If she doesn't have a work permit as such she's not automatically illegal but checking her passport is the best way to tell - she may have the right to work by being the dependent of someone who does have a work permit, for example.

flowerybeanbag · 08/10/2007 16:40

actually, instead of clarifying the exceptions/modifications/qualifications which apply to many employment rights and could get long-winded and complicated, I'll revise my comment of 'same rights as anyone else' to 'same rights as any British worker in the same situation' - in other words her foreign national status does not affect her rights in any way as long as she has the right to work here.
Just for the avoidance of any doubt and for anyone else reading this with a similar query.

MrsSchadenfreude · 10/10/2007 19:29

It sounds as if she has come in as a domestic worker and was working for the family before she came here? If so, her pasport will probably be endorsed "for employment with..." and it won't come under a work permit scheme (WPs generally only for skilled workers where there is a shortage). Not sure what her rights would be, but I think, initially, she has to stay with the family for ?a year? and may get indefinite leave to remain at some point after this (thinking now of the Filippina nanny whose ILR was "helped along" by a former Home Sec. Allegedly...

Home Office or UK Visas website may be able to help.

PeachyFleshCrawlingWithBugs · 10/10/2007 19:39

Saadia, there are famillies in the UK (and everywhere) who participate in a form of domestic slavery- could she be a victim of this? Chances are she's just got a bad family but I would say be aware that it does still happen (estimated 3000 in paris!).

There's a book called disposable people by kevin bale about this, and this site is good. Modern slavery is slightly different from the old kind- owenership for example doesnt often come into question- but its still a big problem.

Hope she's OK

Piffle · 10/10/2007 19:51

is she here legally, not the work bit but legally to reside if not working
if so and you need a bolt hole...
cat me

eleusis · 11/10/2007 12:38

What is modern domestic slavery? Surely everyone has the right to tell their employer to f* off and walk out the door?

RibenaBerry · 11/10/2007 13:40

Yes, but if your immigration status is tied to your employer that may also mean walking out of the country.

Oh, and it's blooming difficult if your employer has all your documents: passport, etc.

peanutbutterkid · 11/10/2007 13:58

Neah, eleusis, some people get admitted to the UK on the basis that they are a domestic servent in a family (and only work in that household, or they have to be deported). In theory the servant has some rights, but they know they'll get fired and then deported if they try to fight for them. I don't know the rules, but if the family manipulates things just so the poor servant can be in effect a slave, thru their ignorance and the conditions of their visa.

Waris Dirie talks about being in this situation in London in the early 1980s, in her autobiography, Desert Flower. In Dirie's case she was totally house-confined, not allowed to learn English and worked hard 7 days/week.

shooshoo · 11/10/2007 14:34

Oh right. I agree that is not an acceptable way to treat an employee.

eleusis · 11/10/2007 14:50

Surely she has rights to leave if she is being treated not according to her contract. I just had a quick look on the web and employers are not supposed to hold the passport.

But I do see that many workers could get trapped in an undesirable situation.

PeachyFleshCrawlingWithBugs · 11/10/2007 19:15

The worst cases of modern domestic slavery are horrific- i've mentioned before on here a woman who was locked up in her employers apartment all day, forced to stand for hours and beaten of she moved, and when she tried to run away they rubbed chilli powder into her vagina (a neighbour eventually heard and called the police).

But the examples given below are of course by far mroe common.

Original poster
saadia · 11/10/2007 19:36

Thanks for all your input everyone. I think she has been here for a few years. She told me about her family problems at home and I got the impression she had no alternative but to take this job. I don't think the employers are physically abusive, just extremely inconsiderate and intrusive eg not giving her her letters.

She just says that it's difficult having to live and work in someone else's house. I know the children are very attached to her and she seems to love them too. She seems to chat to lots of people at the school and has friends. But the passport situation and the fact that she is totally at her employers' whim is scary.

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eleusis · 12/10/2007 08:18

Can she apply for a new passport through her home country's embassy and say the current one is lost. Then, she could possibly apply to exend her stay here but not through a dometic workers visa.

Or can she get the paperwork from wherever the employer has it stashed?