Foreign workers - does this woman have any rights?

[saadia]

Without wishing to give too much away for confidentiality reasons, does anyone know what rights workers have who come form abroad to work as domestic servants? I know of someone through school and her working conditions sound pretty unfair (eg never any time off). Her English is not very good so communication between us is not always clear, but I can't believe her employers are allowed to treat her like this.

[PeachyFleshCrawlingWithBugs]

1999, not that old in literature terms (course I usually end up quoting the Dhammapada, Bhagavad Gita or Qur'an so that's very modern indeed for me LOL)

[peanutbutterkid]

Think it must be the same book, Peachy, I heard the author on the radio in last 6 months, so mistakenly thought it was a recent book.

He was so scarey, and gave an endless number of examples of types of modern slavery. For instance, think of those Chinese cockle pickers who died in Morecombe Bay -- they were effecitvely enslaved.... The other sad thing is how many people enter an indentured condition voluntarily, that's how bad their alternatives are.

[PeachyFleshCrawlingWithBugs]

peanut butter is that the one I mentioned below? (Disposable People)- I was given my copy by a teacher at a school I was mentoring at as his daughter worked for the chap who wrote it- scary but essential reading imo.

[peanutbutterkid]

I'll lay you money this woman gets NO DAYS off. And certainly no hours to go find an Embassy. Any pay she gets goes straight to her family back in the home country (probably far below our minimum wage). She may be over her visa date -- so what? If she queries it, she'll get deported, no penalty on her employer.

And her employer would probably confiscate the English book if they saw it....

There was a fascinating book out kind of recently about modern slavery, including this kind of domestic servitude.

[PeachyFleshCrawlingWithBugs]

Given the details about not holding passport, no time opff etc the site I linked to earlier would know where to direct you for help (chap is a Professor in the subject so knows his stuff)- it might be worth an e-mail?

[saadia]

I agree I think she should be in possession of her passport. Will bring it up when I see her.

[eleusis]

Give her an English book so she can learn english better. She needs to find out what kind of visa she is here on. If nothing else she should write the Home office and say she has lost her paperwork, and could they tell her what her visa number is and how she can get her paperwork replaced? Could she give your address for this? If worst came to worst and the family found out and told her to leave, could you or someone else give her a place to stay until she could get her papers in order and find another job?

What do you mean by every waking hour is accounted for?
How much is she paid?
What are her duties?

I'm sure the collective Mumsnet can help this woman if she is really trapped in unreasonable working conditions.

Also I think if she has been here for years she can apply to stay longer... Oh, hold on... I think I read on the wen that domestic worker visas are issued for about 12 months. If that is so and she has been here for years is it possible she is working without a visa and doesn't know it?

Maybe she shouldn't go to the Home Office. I think she needs to get her hands on the paperwork the employers are holding. Could she think of a reason why her passport is needed? Perhaps a weekend away in France? (Assuming she gets a weekend off)

[saadia]

I don't know eleusis, I guess she could but with her every waking moment accounted for I'm not sure how that could be arranged. I'm really not sure what the employers are like and how they would react if she just said that she wanted to keep her passport with her. And even then, if she did get leave to remain how would she get another job, her English is very poor and she has to work to support her family.

[eleusis]

Can she apply for a new passport through her home country's embassy and say the current one is lost. Then, she could possibly apply to exend her stay here but not through a dometic workers visa.

Or can she get the paperwork from wherever the employer has it stashed?

[saadia]

Thanks for all your input everyone. I think she has been here for a few years. She told me about her family problems at home and I got the impression she had no alternative but to take this job. I don't think the employers are physically abusive, just extremely inconsiderate and intrusive eg not giving her her letters.

She just says that it's difficult having to live and work in someone else's house. I know the children are very attached to her and she seems to love them too. She seems to chat to lots of people at the school and has friends. But the passport situation and the fact that she is totally at her employers' whim is scary.

[PeachyFleshCrawlingWithBugs]

The worst cases of modern domestic slavery are horrific- i've mentioned before on here a woman who was locked up in her employers apartment all day, forced to stand for hours and beaten of she moved, and when she tried to run away they rubbed chilli powder into her vagina (a neighbour eventually heard and called the police).

But the examples given below are of course by far mroe common.

[eleusis]

Surely she has rights to leave if she is being treated not according to her contract. I just had a quick look on the web and employers are not supposed to hold the passport.

But I do see that many workers could get trapped in an undesirable situation.

[shooshoo]

Oh right. I agree that is not an acceptable way to treat an employee.

[peanutbutterkid]

Neah, eleusis, some people get admitted to the UK on the basis that they are a domestic servent in a family (and only work in that household, or they have to be deported). In theory the servant has some rights, but they know they'll get fired and then deported if they try to fight for them. I don't know the rules, but if the family manipulates things just so the poor servant can be in effect a slave, thru their ignorance and the conditions of their visa.

Waris Dirie talks about being in this situation in London in the early 1980s, in her autobiography, Desert Flower. In Dirie's case she was totally house-confined, not allowed to learn English and worked hard 7 days/week.

[RibenaBerry]

Yes, but if your immigration status is tied to your employer that may also mean walking out of the country.

Oh, and it's blooming difficult if your employer has all your documents: passport, etc.

[eleusis]

What is modern domestic slavery? Surely everyone has the right to tell their employer to f* off and walk out the door?

[Piffle]

is she here legally, not the work bit but legally to reside if not working
if so and you need a bolt hole...
cat me

[PeachyFleshCrawlingWithBugs]

Saadia, there are famillies in the UK (and everywhere) who participate in a form of domestic slavery- could she be a victim of this? Chances are she's just got a bad family but I would say be aware that it does still happen (estimated 3000 in paris!).

There's a book called disposable people by kevin bale about this, and this site is good. Modern slavery is slightly different from the old kind- owenership for example doesnt often come into question- but its still a big problem.

Hope she's OK

[MrsSchadenfreude]

It sounds as if she has come in as a domestic worker and was working for the family before she came here? If so, her pasport will probably be endorsed "for employment with..." and it won't come under a work permit scheme (WPs generally only for skilled workers where there is a shortage). Not sure what her rights would be, but I think, initially, she has to stay with the family for ?a year? and may get indefinite leave to remain at some point after this (thinking now of the Filippina nanny whose ILR was "helped along" by a former Home Sec. Allegedly...

Home Office or UK Visas website may be able to help.

[flowerybeanbag]

actually, instead of clarifying the exceptions/modifications/qualifications which apply to many employment rights and could get long-winded and complicated, I'll revise my comment of 'same rights as anyone else' to 'same rights as any British worker in the same situation' - in other words her foreign national status does not affect her rights in any way as long as she has the right to work here.
Just for the avoidance of any doubt and for anyone else reading this with a similar query.

[flowerybeanbag]

sorry should have clarified that accommodation can be offset against minimum wage - I just assumed she didn't live in.

If she doesn't have a work permit as such she's not automatically illegal but checking her passport is the best way to tell - she may have the right to work by being the dependent of someone who does have a work permit, for example.

[saadia]

Thanks eleusis - good idea, just googled and things seem clearer now. Only problem is that she is dependant on these people and her fate is at their whim. They could send her back if she says anything I guess.

[saadia]

Thanks flowerybeanbag. She's from India, her employers have her passport. Will see if she can get hold of it to have a look. So if she doesn't have a work permit does that mean she must be illegal?

[eleusis]

Saadia, If she is a live in emploee she does not have the same rights as everyone else. For eample, there is no minimum wage for a live-in. And I think that they are exempt for maximum hours of work, but I'mnot sure about this.

Also, I think if you come in as a doestic worker your visa entitles you to work for the family who sponsored you. Again, I'm not sure. But surely the all knowing google could tell you what the restrictions are on a domestic worker visa.

Even if she does not hold the paper work, I would think a visa number would be stamped in her passport.

[flowerybeanbag]

where is she from saadia? Here is a list of the European countries for which no work permit is needed. Restrictions apply to Bulgaria and Romania.

If she's not from any of those places she can check in her passport if she's unsure - there should be a stamp in there which will say.

Do get her to go to CAB if you can, but you may want to just investigate a bit to find out what her status is with regard to her right to work here beforehand.