Civil Service Culture

[LAlexander7]

Hi all,

There's potential I am going to be offered a role in the CS, I've always worked in the private sector.

Those of you that work there or have worked in private and public sectors, how did you find the transition? Any major headaches? Can you actually get sh*t done there?

I'll be going in at grade 7.

Hmm or eat lunch at your desk and then claim it as Flexi so that you never work a Friday?

That's not usually possible as you need to take a 30 minute lunch (by law) and the number of days flex you can take a month are usually capped, in my experience 1-2.

Not civil service but public sector for the past couple of years. Of course there are annoying people who want to do the bare minimum then go home, but no more so than in the private sector (where I worked for the 15 years prior to this).

I've only ever heard the phrase "that's above my pay grade" said in jest, usually by someone who then goes on to do the thing they've just joked isn't their job or when we've been asked about something that's well above our level of control (like multi million pound decisions that are obviously reserved for very senior people, again just as you get in the private sector where the receptionist is not in charge of opening a new factory). Me and most of my colleagues are excited about the fact that the work we do makes a tangible difference to people's lives and will go out of our way to make sure a project succeeds. Obviously some things take longer because we are spending public money and taxpayers like to see that we aren't frittering it away, and because some teams we rely on for input are understaffed, but for me it's worth it. I work hard and get to see the results of my work, rather than working hard so someone who doesn't know who I am can have another holiday.

Private sector people, if you're not happy with your annual leave or the fact that you're having to work ridiculous hours for no extra compensation, can I suggest you join a union rather than trying to drag other people down to your level? There's no reason life has to consist of exhausting 60 hour work weeks here in the 21st century.

I don't recognise some of the descriptions here either. I've worked all my career, bar the last few years, in very fast paced private sector roles. I would say the pace in my area of the CS is a little slower but not much.
The hours can be long, there are times when I'm working until midnight for days in a row. But the plus is that I can take at least some of that extra time back when things quieten down.
I can honestly say that there is no dead wood or clockwatchers around me - I'm surrounded with people who are very ambitious, highly intelligent, with great CVs and who put in long hours very willingly. We are also under scrutiny as a result of detailed quarterly reviews.
The plus is that there are good protections, so you don't have to worry about the fear of sudden firings if someone deems your face doesn't fit for some arbitrary reason - although restructurings do happen. There is also a little more flexibility than the private sector - although you have to get your work done.
In addition, the CS is very welcoming of diversity - whether that be sexual diversity or neurodiversity.
All in all, I've generally found the CS a warm, stimulating and very collaborative environment in which I've greatly grown in confidence.

I'm in a departmental ALB, have been for six months and am desperately trying to find something else, as are several colleagues. I have gained some skills since starting but mainly in conflict resolution with customers because we have such a ridiculous backlog of work and are haemorrhaging staff because everyone is overwhelmed, training is non-existent and trying to get timely support from managers is like getting blood from a stone. My immediate colleagues are great and really supportive in the main, which makes a big difference, but I am HEO level and the work is essentially complicated admin allocated like on a production line and good god I'm bored. I've tried to ask for development opportunities but they go no further than my manager. I've just asked for permission to apply for a promotion but have met resistance there, presumably because I've been in post less than a year, but the alternative is I just leave the CS completely because I can't stand it much longer.

I've just asked for permission to apply for a promotion but have met resistance there, presumably because I've been in post less than a year

You can apply for external jobs at anytime, you don't need to wait.

Been in CS a year after 20 years in private sector. Grade 6/7 I think. Is there one? I left my private sector role because even though I loved it to begin with as I got higher I found myself surrounded by ex police / military white middled aged men (male dominated sector). All competiting. All waiting to pull apart everything you do, or to take control of your area, wanting to prove how much better they were. I swear if it was medievil times I'd have had a dagger in my back if I took my eyes off the game for more than a second.

So I left and joined the CS. Same sector. Still mainly men (more diversity amongst the men) but I haven't yet experienced much combatative behaviour. I do find I have good skills that I can really use. The pace is slower. Hours sometimes long but the stress feels less as I don't feel like I am doing them to protect my position this time. I think there is a lot of red tape that I still haven't gotten use to. I took a paycut but feel my role is far more important than my private sector one and I can see areas where I can make a difference. The flexibility is amazing too.

I've just asked for permission to apply for a promotion but have met resistance there, presumably because I've been in post less than a year, but the alternative is I just leave the CS completely because I can't stand it much longer.

Sounds like it would be better to leave that ALB anyway. Do you have access to CS jobs, internal and external? Just apply for jobs on there, no permission required.

@Polkabott

I've just asked for permission to apply for a promotion but have met resistance there, presumably because I've been in post less than a year

You can apply for external jobs at anytime, you don't need to wait.

This is internal, in the same department, so I need my manager's permission. I am also applying for external ones but for the internal positions it asks for your line manager's details.

Am keeping an eye on CS jobs for anything vaguely interesting, but also starting to think that I might also need to look at going back to the private sector.

I worked in retail, then the civil service, then private sector, then NDGB, then higher education and now a charity.

The best employers for me were retail, higher education and charity. Inclusive, sociable, supportive and flexible workplaces.

The mediocre ones were the civil service and NDGB. The CS was really incredibly boring and low paid (at the time - 20 years ago). The NDGB varied in enjoy-ability / boredom depending on your role and department. Great pay and benefits. Union representation. but little flexible working or inclusion.

The worst was the private sector. Not enough work for the number of staff they had. Lot of H&S breaches. Bullying. Payment delays.

A lot of it does depend on the employer and/or manager, regardless of sector.

@dubyalass

I'm in a departmental ALB, have been for six months and am desperately trying to find something else, as are several colleagues. I have gained some skills since starting but mainly in conflict resolution with customers because we have such a ridiculous backlog of work and are haemorrhaging staff because everyone is overwhelmed, training is non-existent and trying to get timely support from managers is like getting blood from a stone. My immediate colleagues are great and really supportive in the main, which makes a big difference, but I am HEO level and the work is essentially complicated admin allocated like on a production line and good god I'm bored. I've tried to ask for development opportunities but they go no further than my manager. I've just asked for permission to apply for a promotion but have met resistance there, presumably because I've been in post less than a year, but the alternative is I just leave the CS completely because I can't stand it much longer.

I’m not so sure about the need for ‘permission’, but you do need to give your existing line managers details and will have difficulty in changing post following a successful application without support (And they will be notified by the system when you submit an application)

Different departments have different terms, but in general it is:
No job applications during probation - because your probation is assessed as suitability in the role you were recruited into
(Usually 6 months, but can be up to a year for specialist posts)

Other than probation there can normally be no restrictions on change of post on promotion

It appears that the problem is the manager/specific department

(By specific department I mean the team/branch not overall government department)

I’m not so sure about the need for ‘permission’, but you do need to give your existing line managers details and will have difficulty in changing post following a successful application without support (And they will be notified by the system when you submit an application)

This isn't strictly true (universally at least), I've just changed posts (albeit not in probation) and my manager was none the wiser when I was applying for various roles (outside of dept I was in but internal to CS jobs), he didn't have the authority to block it because it was permanent. I've managed staff who have applied for jobs via CS jobs and I've not been notified.

I've had the ok to apply now; I would always let a manager know that I wanted to apply for something internal because it feels like the right thing to do, at least in this case (no major issues with my manager other than they are pretty unavailable and not very good at managing their workload - I like them as a person and they are generally supportive when I do manage to get hold of them). Anyway, thanks everyone for your input/advice, really appreciate it

Just jumping on the thread to ask - is there a general ‘civil service’ culture?
Surely it depends on role?
I’m a software dev and have been told that many CS roles are underpaid with tech from a previous century. That would actually lower your market value for future jobs.
But my friends in policy or ‘decision-making’ (?) rôles..working for the FCA or the Bank of England have dynamic roles with plenty of perks like master’s degrees paid for etc.

I don’t see how it’s possible to compare roles as something generic.

I don’t see how it’s possible to compare roles as something generic.

Very true, departments and organisations vary wildly as well, plus the grade you are will have an impact. You can't generalise nearly half a million jobs.

@TractorAndHeadphones

Just jumping on the thread to ask - is there a general ‘civil service’ culture? Surely it depends on role? I’m a software dev and have been told that many CS roles are underpaid with tech from a previous century. That would actually lower your market value for future jobs. But my friends in policy or ‘decision-making’ (?) rôles..working for the FCA or the Bank of England have dynamic roles with plenty of perks like master’s degrees paid for etc.

I don’t see how it’s possible to compare roles as something generic.

It depends on the role really. Generally a lot of tech jobs are more lowly paid that in industry, but that's more due to over inflated pay due elsewhere due to shortages rather than them being badly paid in general, if that makes sense. Systems are not the most dynamic to be honest, but if you went for a role in the mod for example you might have the chance to work on some really cutting edge stuff- whereas a department that doesn't invest in developing tech that won't be the case. Some departments have more of a training budget and more of a requirement for x people to be trained in y and to fund it on the job, but the 'perks' are largely similar as a baseline across the CS ie sick pay, pension etc.

I have worked in private sector (inc v “fast paced” bits) and public sector. Let take away for anyone reading this should be that it is really difficult to generalise across the CS. Just like there are crappy private sector employers there are some crappy departments or offices in the CS. But, speaking from experience, the good bits are amazing. Fantastic people, positive culture, hard working but respecting of family and boundaries, inclusive. And if you want interest and impact we have got it in spades!

So investigate the team and job carefully. But don’t be put off - there are some truly fantastic opportunities. And in much of the CS the idea that it is “slow” is totally laughable - it’s all felt really rather speedy recently for sure!

@user97495

Hmm or eat lunch at your desk and then claim it as Flexi so that you never work a Friday?

That's not usually possible as you need to take a 30 minute lunch (by law) and the number of days flex you can take a month are usually capped, in my experience 1-2.

Yep. You have to clock out for your lunch break. And in the HO we could have max 2 days Flexi a month. It was still an extra 24 days a year which isn't half bad!