Civil Service Culture

[LAlexander7]

Hi all,

There's potential I am going to be offered a role in the CS, I've always worked in the private sector.

Those of you that work there or have worked in private and public sectors, how did you find the transition? Any major headaches? Can you actually get sh*t done there?

I'll be going in at grade 7.

Im on a graduate programme in the cs having only worked private sector and self employed, i find the only good things are that its family friendly plus a great pension. Big big difference between me and others i work with who only have public sector backgrounds. They are work to rule, 'thats not in my job description & computer says no' type people. I get passive aggressive comments because im not like that. But, this also has a downside: i have a poor work life balance. I work til the job is done. This can be an emotional strain at times

I fell into CS almost by mistake after being made redundant from the private sector and have now worked for a few big departments. People I have worked with have been hard-working and passionate (and also very welcoming). I get that it's a different pace to the private sector but that's because it's public money so we're held accountable. Yes things take longer than they should and it's frustrating but I appreciate why there are so many checks and balances in place.

There are a couple of deadwood people in the wider team and it pissed me off that they're so hard to get rid of but they are a very small minority.

Hello just resurrecting an older thread to see if the OP made the move. I'm in a similar position. Another thread I saw talked about the amazing flexibility and career progression in the civil service - whereas this one talks about the crapness and frustration of it!

Any news @LAlexander7?

My close relative has worked in the CS for 30 years.

Honestly the things she tells me (I am ex private sector HR) there is no way that she or most of her colleagues would get away with half of their nonsense in the private sector. They're all on old contracts so they get, no exaggeration, 50 odd days holiday a year plus all bank holidays, they've got great pensions and all they do is whine! It's constant formal grievances if they don't like anything - a change in line manager, a minor change to anything really. The pace of work is something else. Slow slow slow.

But yes, they'll never leave because of the holidays and pension. Only bonus is their pensions are so good they tend to retire fairly early so in the next 10-15 years they should be retired and some new blood will be in so improvements can be made.

I worked in private sector for 15 years then moved to a civil service role and have been in a govt department for nearly ten years. I regret it, I feel trapped and despite trying hard to leave and go back to private sector I feel as though my work experience has been devalued.
My experience: career civil servants will hear nothing negative about the CS despite not knowing any different. Anyone who complains about problems with work or ways of working is considered to be a negative person. It is just expected that I will work evenings and weekends if work needs doing, to not do this means I am not a team player. I have often found people "hide" their work or not be open about something because they see you as a rival for future promotion and want to get ahead of you. Terrible pay deals over the years mean my salary has effectively been cut.

Oh, and to add that yes, it's impossible to get rid of anyone, which in practice means a lot of senior people are terrible at their job but it's because they've been promoted out of the way of others. I have actually known someone who assaulted their team member be promoted to move him out of the way rather than face consequences.

@NinaGonk

Hello just resurrecting an older thread to see if the OP made the move. I'm in a similar position. Another thread I saw talked about the amazing flexibility and career progression in the civil service - whereas this one talks about the crapness and frustration of it!

Any news @LAlexander7?

Dh joined the CV late in his career, he was promoted very quickly but the salary never kept pace with the Private Sector (he almost doubled his salary on leaving). Getting out after 6 years was trickier than he expected - his private sector employers thought he'd have lost his edge and he only returned because a very senior sponsor fought his case.

@fuzzymoomin

Oh, and to add that yes, it's impossible to get rid of anyone, which in practice means a lot of senior people are terrible at their job but it's because they've been promoted out of the way of others. I have actually known someone who assaulted their team member be promoted to move him out of the way rather than face consequences.

I hope the victim of the assault reported it to the police? That is so bad on so many levels.

Whilst there are some good benefits it's very bureaucratic and the pay is awful.

@dontyouworrydontyouworrynow

My close relative has worked in the CS for 30 years.

Honestly the things she tells me (I am ex private sector HR) there is no way that she or most of her colleagues would get away with half of their nonsense in the private sector. They're all on old contracts so they get, no exaggeration, 50 odd days holiday a year plus all bank holidays, they've got great pensions and all they do is whine! It's constant formal grievances if they don't like anything - a change in line manager, a minor change to anything really. The pace of work is something else. Slow slow slow.

But yes, they'll never leave because of the holidays and pension. Only bonus is their pensions are so good they tend to retire fairly early so in the next 10-15 years they should be retired and some new blood will be in so improvements can be made.

Someone is telling lies about 50 days leave plus bank holidays …. That’s 58 days, more than one day off per week.

I’m on old contract terms with 31.5 days leave, one privilege day and 8 bank holidays (40.5 days total)
New starters get 25 days leave which works up to 30 days
There used to be 2.5 privilege days - the queens official birthday, half day maundy Thursday and an extra day at Christmas.
They were removed but the queens birthday was granted by the queen so could not just be changed without her consent. This means that one remains a privilege day.
Anyone in post before the appropriate date had 1.5 daconverted to leave, but if promoted the contract changes and they will be forfeit and drop to a maximum of 30 days leave

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privilege_day

Someone is making things up to claim 50 days + 8 bank holidays (and presumably queens birthday privilege day) a total of 59 days per year - that would be a day off every week and still have enough for Christmas

@dontyouworrydontyouworrynow

My close relative has worked in the CS for 30 years.

Honestly the things she tells me (I am ex private sector HR) there is no way that she or most of her colleagues would get away with half of their nonsense in the private sector. They're all on old contracts so they get, no exaggeration, 50 odd days holiday a year plus all bank holidays, they've got great pensions and all they do is whine! It's constant formal grievances if they don't like anything - a change in line manager, a minor change to anything really. The pace of work is something else. Slow slow slow.

But yes, they'll never leave because of the holidays and pension. Only bonus is their pensions are so good they tend to retire fairly early so in the next 10-15 years they should be retired and some new blood will be in so improvements can be made.

This is anti civil service culture war bollocks.

PS I’ve been in since 1985, so that’s 36 years.
Someone who has been in for 30 will be on the same contract as me with 30 or 31.5 days leave
The pension is good, however the ‘best’ pension has frozen
No current contributions go to that pension, so now I have my old pension up to a certain date and one of the ‘lesser’ pensions since then

I don't recognise the negativity on here - I've been in the CS 20 years and I love it. I did work in the private the sector beforehand.

I do agree there are some crap people and it is hard to get rid of those but I've generally worked with hard working and passionate people.

What I would say is if it's a policy job it's very hard to come in at G7 unless you've had a policy role elsewhere (charity for example). Most direct entrant G7s into policy aren't very good in my experience as it's quite a specialist skill that needs to be learned over time.

But operations or the professions (such as law) are easier to join from outside as there's more opportunities for relevant experience.

Following with intrigue

I’m a career civil servant. I recognise many of the criticisms levelled on this thread (aside from 50 days leave, I wish!). The CS is made up of many different separate organisations, but they are good enough to let you retain your length of service when you move departments. I’ve worked in 5 departments at various levels and they are all different culture wise - some I loved, a couple I hated and warn people off.

It is hard beyond belief to get rid of crap people but most people want to do a good honest job. I currently lead teams with a total of 50 people a nd they are all dedicated and capable - I feel very lucky to have such great teams with a passion for public service.

I agree with AnneElliott’s comments about coming into policy at G7, it is a challenge - done it myself, my previous experience was in operational depts.

And you have to remember re the crappy people that the same policies that protect them will protect them if someone decides you don’t fit in and wants to get rid of you!

Loads of meetings for the sake of having meetings
Discussing this that need doing and then not doing them
Plenty of box ticking
God help you if you actually want to improve something for the better

The 50 days leave obviously including the flexi leave provision.

Civil service was so easy but demoralising compared to private sector.

The 50 days leave obviously including the flexi leave provision

That's not leave, you've worked the hours to take it off.

I like working in the CS, I've found progression very quick if you're willing to move about. Pension is excellent, the flexible culture is next to none. The variety in work knows no bounds and I enjoy working in an organisation that's doing a lot of good, I'm much more fulfilled than I was in the private sector.

There are frustrations, some things are so draconianly slow, they use shit third party contractors like SOP (SOP enrages me) very hierarchical, but the pros outweigh the cons for me right now.

That's not leave, you've worked the hours to take it off

That is debatable. Try finding a similary paid public sector job where anything over 37 hours worked each week can be claimed back in time off.

private sector job

@CornishTiger

The 50 days leave obviously including the flexi leave provision.

Civil service was so easy but demoralising compared to private sector.

For someone who’s been in for 30 or more years they are likely to have been on flexi rules that permitted a maximum of one to two flexi days per month - 52.5 days of leave, privilege days, bank holidays and flexi. Not 58

It could also be counting those who counted their ‘sick leave entitlement’, however they were the generation that were on their way out when I started 36 years ago in the 80s. Not someone who started 30 years ago in the 90s

To be fair though, there was a time that I very rarely worked Fridays, but at that time I was heading an organisation across the South West and up to the West Midlands, putting in a lot of weekday travel and also often collating a task for about an hour on a Sunday evening

If someone has a lot of flexi hours then that’s what’s called unpaid overtime or their manager is failing to manage them.
Either that or

1. the posters 50 day leave relative is taking the mickey out of them
2. there’s fraud going on

That is debatable. Try finding a similary paid public sector job where anything over 37 hours worked each week can be claimed back in time off.

More fool you, I've worked across the private and public sectors (at varying levels) and never worked more than what I was paid for, I know my worth.

@user97495

The 50 days leave obviously including the flexi leave provision

That's not leave, you've worked the hours to take it off.

Hmm or eat lunch at your desk and then claim it as Flexi so that you never work a Friday?