Daughter received disciplinary invitation for Gross Miscinduct she's 16!!!!!

[UggyPow]

I am in shock - DD works for a small local business worked there for 14 months, bosses love her lots of promotions, training & development - keep talking about long term career to her & training options.
Out of the blue an email received inviting her to a disciplinary for gross negligence, in regards to care of the customers, it refers to policy & procedures which she has never seen & doesn't tell her what it is about, no investigation, nothing.
I have looked at ACAS & it clearly says to talk to employee first but does allow for going straight to disciplinary but says they must provide suffucient notice less than 48 hours given (Acas states 5 working days).
But it doesn't tell her anything about the situation or circumstances concerned.
ACAs clearly says as part of any investigation evidence must be gathered from all sides - this definitely hasn't happened as she has no idea what it's even about.
It also says the letter should clearly state what it regards to so the person can prepare.
Oh and email is signed cheers managers nickname
She gets her GCSE results on Thursday & is already incredibly stressed out with the Chaos of that.
Not sure what to do, worried if go in all guns blazing could wreck daughter's job which she loves but how they they call a disciplinary without telling the person what it is about!!!!!

I wonder if the groping thing has resulted in the business getting a solicitors letter and panicking. The girls could still go to the police.

@TorysSuckRevokeArticle50

And misidentification could be gross negligence if it relates to Data Protection as she could potentially have disclosed information to a 3rd party or put the company at risk of a data breach which comes with possible fines or even prosecution.

The 'misidentification' relates to a complaint from a guy who was witnessed assaulting her then writing to claim misidentification when he was asked to leave.

There's no data breach. It's a misogynistic predatory shit stirerer trying to make trouble because a 16 year old girl and her manager had the audacity to stand up to him. And head office are blindly 'following procedure'

@UggyPow your DD needs to talk to her manager. I expect this will all be a storm in a teacup in that the complaint letter has triggered an auto response, but she'll need to 'tick the boxes' in terms of procedure.

It sucks for her and I would have expected more sensitivity from management

As she's been working there for less than two years she can be dismissed for any reason, as long as it's not discriminatory (sex, disability, religion and so on)

The company should follow a formal yet open process. I agree that this has been very badly handled.

Would this have anything to do with social media by any chance?
It must be awful to be in the dark as to what she's meant to have done wrong.
If her boss is casual enough to finish an email with 'cheers, nickname', surely he would accept a quick phonecall to just tell the girl what she's been accused of?

And misidentification could be gross negligence if it relates to Data Protection as she could potentially have disclosed information to a 3rd party or put the company at risk of a data breach which comes with possible fines or even prosecution. That's a stretch!

What data had not been protected? DATA . If the person banned was named then his details would have been disseminated across relevant stores. That happens daily! Saying his name, identifying him is not a data breach.

If you are right then every time a person is accused and the CPS decide not to prosecute then a data breach of some sort has occurred! That is not GDPR, the ICO etc are there for.

She shouldn't have to face a panel of 4 adults hurling unfounded accusations at her without notice on her own.

I absolutely agree with this, anybody who thinks a teenager can behave in a calm measured way in that situation must be quite naive.

I think the other option is like PP have said for her to just walk away. It does feel like they're after a cheaper way to offload staff.

www.gov.uk/dismiss-staff/dismissals-on-capability-or-conduct-grounds

Why are people saying she is employed as an adult? She isn’t. For starters, her hourly wage is a lot lower, she is entitled to more breaks, her working hours are restricted etc. By law she is classed as a young adult worker.

Where I worked any meetings involving under 18s were allowed a family member to attend.

She and the other girl need to have a chat and make sure that they both have the same take on it.

I would then email (and get her to sign it) requesting more information and the disciplinary document. I would request that witness statements be taken from any who saw the incident, including you. Also the manager who removed the man when he returned.

Your poor DD. How stressful for her. It's a bad enough week waiting for exam results. To those saying she is an adult - rubbish. She is 16. Take care of her OP, lots of TLC.

There could, at a stretch, be a data breach depending on what happened. Say the creep paid by credit card. Then after the incident, the OP’s daughter used the name she saw on the credit card to identify him. Or his details were taken as part of potential test and trace, since this is in a hospitality setting, and OP’s daughter used these to identify him. That’s not using the data for the purpose for which it was gathered, however morally right it is.

Was the touching incident an assault or more of a covid not socially distancing issue?

@UggyPow Are you, or her father in a Union - most will also give employment and legal advice for other families. Check with any professionally registered bodies you are with too as they sometimes do.

Do NOT let her go to the meeting alone. Do you have any legal friends or legal advice centre?

Do insist they give her five days notice

Do not discuss it with the other girl so there can be no accusations that they "got their story straight".

Look at the options she has - does she know she can walk away?

Actually @AdoptAdaptImprove that data could be used like that to protect staff in an alleged assault of two employees. It's a crime.

Could social media be an issue here? Has someone said something on Facebook or wherever?

@Jargo I agree that it could legitimately be used in investigating a crime, but my understanding is that this hasn’t been reported to police, and in the absence of using the data to report a crime, I think the workplace might (rightly or wrongly) jump to it being a data breach.

I do think the OPs daughter should carefully consider reporting the crime. Why should a creep get away with assaulting and intimidating her?

That’s creepy - customers can be out
Of hand and get away with it.

Anyway,
They probably want to make her redundant, just because covid
Etc. They will try to make out like its
A misconduct dismissal So they don’t have to pay much.
That’s just my thought.

I would get a solicitor involved. If they fire her on these grounds she could have issues in the future when applying for a new job. Many job applications ask you if you have been dismissed from a previous job. Go with her plus a solicitor in tow!

If she's been invited to a disciplinary there's a few things to note:

1. What is the disciplinary process in her contract? If it is outlined then this must be followed regardless. By law if she's worked there for less than two years she can't claim unfair dismissal unless she has a written disciplinary process in her contract or discrimination.
2. Gross Misconduct / Negligence can only be used in extreme cases. This needs to be proven. Even in this case they must follow the disciplinary process outlined or they can be taken to a tribunal.
3. They must allow her to attend with a witness. Unlike what people say here this is a colleague or union rep. Tell her to take someone. It's extremely important to have a witness. Failure to allow would result in an unfair dismissal case.
4. They must provide all evidence before the disciplinary hearing. She should request this in writing. Refusal would find her disciplinary unfair dismissal.
5. Request 5 days before disciplinary hearing. This is advice by acas, failure to provide this will be looked very unfavourable at a tribunal where the employer will be responsible for damages.
6. They cant make a decision before the hearing. If at anytime this appears to be the case then it would be unfair dismissal.

Most important is that she phones ACAS helpline and gets their advice. They will guide her on exactly what is legal and what is not. She also should let her employer know she is seeking advice from ACAS.

Is it a definitely a gross misconduct hearing for her? I’m wondering if it’s a hearing for the manager and she has been called as a witness - as she was the party whom the manager was protecting.

Just a thought.

sounds fishy, please attend with her Mum/OP

The OP had acknowledged that they do not know that this investigation has anything to do with the customer who was a letch just that that is the only example of a bad customer they can think of.

For all we know she gave out someone phone number from a COVID track n trace sign in sheet.

Her daughter needs to attend the investigation meeting with a colleague or union rep and get an understanding of what she is being accused of. She has no right to parental intervention due to her age, if she is old enough to work she is old enough to attend work meetings by herself.

I have a bit more information & i will clarify other bits.

The first night pubs were allowed to open my daughter worked at a couple of points she went to a particular table a man kept trying to grab her hands so she held them against her stomach, he continued to try to grab her hands. Her also grabbed her face, the owners & landlords witnessed this - they asked my daughter to stay behind the bar which she then did & he spoke to them.
I had taken my daughter her dinner & been invited by the landlord to stay for a drink, after he spoke to them I heard him saying to the others at the table that it was ridiculous for a barmaid to object to being touched & it was part of the job!!!!
I went to the toilet & quietly advised one of the other men at the table who had said hello to my partner on arrival that she was only 16.
Later the other girl was collecting glasses & the same man touched her on the back of the leg deliberately. The landlady spoke to the whole table & told them them were inappropriate & asked them to finish their drinks and leave.
I believe they did.
Early August a person my daughter believed to be the same gentleman entered the bar, she stated to another member of bar staff that she belived it wa-s the man from that night, she was asked again later & said she was 85-90% certain. The landlord asked them to leave he ended up having a long argument, where he said somethings that a landlord should never say to a customer & he also told the man that even if CCtv confirmed it wasn't him he would not apologise. I believe the customer has then complained to the licensing body and they need to be seen to take some action as they have only just been granted a later licence & do not want to jeopardise that.
AS she is under 18 she can request a parent/carer to be present however I am not sure this would be the best thing to do.
She can also ask for Union or a colleague.
The landlords were both involeved in the argument with the man & have made statements the disciplinary letter is signed by one of the Landlords but has been emailed to her by the manager who calls her Bud & signs off the email with cheers & nickname.
The evidence has not been provided to my daughter. the manager sent a text message to my daughter advising of the other girls disciplinary - this is the only GDPR breach & its by them.
I think that answers all the questions - I am going to be gone for a bit as I need to cook tea for us.

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