Redundancy - Company has re-advertised role

[Crispsarnie]

Hello everyone, you have me great advice to keep myself cheery during my redundancy notice period etc and I have found a new job. Today I was made aware that my company has now re-advertised the role with a different job title. Devastated doesn't cover what I am feeling as it has made me feel so worthless, but are they actually allowed to do this?

I'm sure if the job description is like for like they can't do that?
What was the reason they made you redundant for?

Well done on your new job.
If you have legal expenses on your house insurance take then to a tribunal!! Or at least get them to re negotiate your redundancy package!

Are you still employed by them? If not, how long ago did you leave?

Thank you both for your replies.

It is exactly the same job description, but the job title is different (probably as they realise it's not great to re--advertise). I am not employed by them anymore as had redundancy. The company paid me PILON for January so I left in December (December just gone) and the role has been advertised a few days ago. The reason I was made redundant is that they needed to reduce the amount of employees. I worked for the 20 years plus, with no issues/sick etc but was told I didn't meet the criteria. The criteria was interview only (no previous performance was included). I work part-time and the roles are full time roles.

Just to add the new job is on a full-time basis too.

You could claim unfair dismissal. Have a read of this... worksmart.org.uk/work-rights/losing-your-job/redundancy/shortly-after-i-was-made-redundant-my-ex-employer-ran-ad-post

Ok if it’s less than three months since your employment terminated you can get an unfair dismissal claim in on the grounds the redundancy wasn’t genuine, but you need to be quick.

Unfair dismissal compensation is based on financial loss so if you had redundancy pay and have a new job you may decide it’s not worth bothering if you have no loss. But bunging a claim in may encourage them to give you a bit more money.

Did you sign a disclaimer when you left about not taking things further after your redundancy has been paid? They do this at my work.
Very frustrating for you and I hope of you have legal expenses cover or can afford a solicitor you at least make them sweat and get some more redundancy pay.

Thanks again. No disclaimer was signed. I do have another job but it's a fixed term, for less money and hours, but I did get redundancy. Would any claim then need to be declared for another future employer or affect a reference? The amount of team members were reduced but could they argue that it is due to an internal promotion for one of the successful team so a new vacancy? The money advertised is also much lower than I earnt (due to my length of service and performance related payrises). It's a bit ridiculous that it's upset me so much but it wasn't just the job it was the perks too (pension and such like).

If a different title and a different hours i expect they can weasily say well it,s a different job role. (even if it,s not. ) I know I was in a job once where the person training me was leaving because she was being made redundant for some reason and i was taking her place. It didn,t sit right with either of us. I have also been told that I can not reapply for a job simply for financial reasons although it was the same that i was doing. (But I was covering leave and had come to the end of my contract.)

” The amount of team members were reduced but could they argue that it is due to an internal promotion for one of the successful team so a new vacancy?” Don’t know- is that the case? Has one of the remaining team members been promoted elsewhere since the redundancy process, leaving a vacancy? That can happen, business needs genuinely changing quickly after a redundancy.

”The money advertised is also much lower than I earnt (due to my length of service and performance related payrises).”

I wouldn’t worry too much about that. The definition of redundancy is the type of work ceasing or diminishing. If the role is still the same but someone new would naturally be on a lower salary, that doesn’t make it a different role.

I think you need to decide whether it will help you feel better to challenge it or to put it behind you. You can’t undo what has been done, but if you want to make a point and possibly get a bit more money, you could at least start down the process of challenging itz

”Would any claim then need to be declared for another future employer or affect a reference?”

No not at all. If it goes all the way to tribunal the records are technically public now but potential employers don’t check them as a matter of course. And if the new role is FTC it does indicate some financial loss.

If you left in December you may just be in the 3 month window to submit a claim. Speak to ACAS. You may even be able to get some sort of settlement through early conciliation if they dont want the hassle of going to ET

*Employment Tribunal not the cute alien from the 80s

I would absolutely pursue this - a change of job title is not sufficient change to make you redundant - the law is very clear about this. It then makes your dismissal automatically unfair. Good luck op

Might be the case that whoever did get one of the positions you were in has handed their notice in so they are advertising to fill that position?

They canreplace the role six months later. So with start dates etc they may be within the law op.

That with a different job title etc, it would seem they have sought legal advice and are complying.

As long as the new person starts in another three months, which is highly likely then they are legally compliant.

”They canreplace the role six months later.”

Where did you hear that?! There is no such rule. For a redundancy dismissal to be fair and lawful, it needs to have been a genuine redundancy situation at the time the decision was made (and still be a genuine redundancy situation by the time employment ends).

There is absolutely no rule saying that if business needs change again, they cannot recruit within a set period, or that the start date of anyone new needs to be a set period after the termination of the redundant person.

Obviously if they recruit quickly, however, it does undermine the initial argument that there was a genuine redundancy situation, so to re recruit without the original post holder bringing a successful claim, a business would really need to show that there had been a genuine and significant change that could not have been foreseen.

Because the time period for bringing an unfair dismissal claim is three months, in practice, even if it wasn’t a genuine redundancy situation, once that time has passed, the business can do whatever it likes. It is prudent to wait a little longer in case there are any circumstances which might cause the time limit to be extended or to make sure there’s nothing drifting around ACAS.

I think you may have googled and read the American advice..

I think you may have googled and read the American advice..

Flowery is an HR expert. She knows what she is talking about.

What she says is correct. There is no 6 month rule in UK law. What matters is that it is a genuine redundancy at the time the individual is made redundant. If the situation changes shortly afterwards (e.g. the employer wins new business) they can recruit a replacement. They don't have to wait 6 months.

”I think you may have googled and read the American advice..“

Please feel free to point me to the piece of legislation or case law that sets out this rule.

Flowery's good, but she doesn't own these boards.

Did I miss something?

I don't think anyone is claiming she does. But Bluntness100 is saying flowery's advice is wrong and suggesting she got it from a Google search throwing up American advice. She is wrong on all counts.

This is not the first time Bluntness100 has confidently given incorrect advice on employment law and claimed those who actually know the law are talking rubbish when they are actually giving correct advice.

Well thank you all once more - please don't argue helping me, I'm really pleased about all the advice.

I've looked own my ex-employer's website today and there is a job moved back now with the same job description that I had. I've heard on the grapevine that somebody has another role within the company, so effectively left the post once they were successful. I know that's life and hard knocks etc., but it's really upset me. I really wanted to stay there and had great performance feedback and was well respected but couldn't sell myself in an interview. I know that I have a fixed-term job now but I had to have several unsuccessful interviews to get to that stage (as I was so unused to interviews having been in the same company for over 20 years). I really need to have a think about if I want to put myself through a potential tribunal, or chalk it up to experience and move on. I woke up in the night thinking about it so it's obviously bothering me. Anyway I've waffled on and on, but what I wanted to say was thank you.

If someone with the same role left after you, fair enough that the role was advertised