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Original poster

returning to work after mat leave: I don't think my boss will agree my flexi hours application

64 replies

foxcub · 30/08/2007 19:32

I feel so very depressed about returning to work in 2.4 weeks. My boss has e-mailed me saying that it will take longer than that to process my flexi work application so he wants me to return on my old hours.

I am going to e-mail him saying I cannot return until I have childcare set up and I cannot arrange childcare until I have my hours confirmed, so will be postponing my return until its all agreed. That will give me at least another two weeks with my baby.

My plan was to work 3 days in office/1 at home. Taking one day accrued annual leave each week would mean only 2 days in office until January, which would be fine, but my boss is hinting he doesn't want to agree it (talking about the need to "bottom out" some "issues" around my proposed new hours ).

I am aware roughly of the rule, as around applying for stat flexible hours for parents with children under six but would really appreciate some advice on tactics regarding how to persuade him to accept my application to work flexibly.

I always meet my targets and so do my team and I have two fab managers who I can delegate too. 30 people in the org work flexi hours - many who are not even parents. I think he's just being an arse.

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spiritofstlouis · 30/08/2007 19:42

It almost sounds like your boss is being difficult for the sake of it- as if he's saying "well you may be coming back part time but you won't have it all your way". Don't know what to suggest, apart from making sure you stand your ground and aren't intimidated by his attitude. I'm due back in November after my first baby and looking forward to it and dreading it in equal parts. Will be part time and realised today that I'll also have to leave at 5.20 to get to the nursery for 6... although I'll be doing the hours as I get in early I can just see everyone thinking what a slacker I am!

flowerybeanbag · 30/08/2007 19:43

foxcub is it the end of your maternity leave in 2.4 weeks or just the date when you had previously arranged to go back?

Is your boss hinting he doesn't want to agree the 3 days in/1 at home, or that he doesn't want to also let you take holiday 1 day a week for the next few months? Agreeing to 3 days in the office 1 at home is very different to agreeing to what would effectively be 2 days in the office and 1 day at home.

Obviously without knowing more, circumstances etc etc it's impossible to give an opinion on what would be reasonable, but this document will give you some useful stuff on benefits of flexible working for you to use.

And don't use your two managers who you can delegate to as a reason why it should be agreed- you should be emphasising that you will be able to work harder/more effectively/more efficiently by doing this, not saying that it's ok because you've got brilliant people you can dump stuff on...
I'm sure that's not what you meant, but you get my point, parents wanting to work flexibly and wanting to be taken seriously in the workplace have to demonstrate how well it works, which doesn't involve any negative impact on their work or the workload of others. Focus on the benefits to the business of you doing this.

Original poster
foxcub · 30/08/2007 20:14

That's a good point flowery BB - about emphasising the good points. He doesn't know how I plan to take my leave as I haven't mentioned it.

I can stay off until March if I want, but my pay has run out. I don't have to return for another 6 months,but do need to return probably in the next 2 months to avoid getting into debt.

He initially e-mailed me and said he saw no problem with my proposal. But he has since discussed with Head of HR who has thrown up some "issues". I previously submitted a greivance (which was resolved outsied of the grievance process in the end) which criticised a guy who is the best friend of the Head of HR. I went to a work do recently and noticed Head of HR was talking about me behind her hand. Ironically she is a huge advocate of flexible working but now I think she has the knives out for me

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SofiaAmes · 30/08/2007 20:32

How easy would it be to find another job? There is a lot to be said for starting at a job with the understanding that you are working flexible hours. That way there is no reference back to how things "used to be." Escpecially since you have an issue with the head of HR.
When I lived in the UK I went back to work with flexible/part time hours and it was always a problem. In the end (for a variety of reasons), I moved back to the usa (where there really aren't any rules about requiring employers to do flexible hours). However, I had no problem finding a job with flexible hours and they are very reasonable about the unexpected (sick children, class performances, etc.).

Original poster
foxcub · 30/08/2007 21:12

Sof - a new job is out of the question as what I do is quite specialised and I am extremely lucky to have a top job in my field 15 minutes drive away. A similar job would be further away, which defeats the object.

I think that would be a cop out too in a way - as it means my employer gets to treat me badly, whereas they have agreed flexi hours for 30 other people.

I am proposeing to do a 30 hr week instead of my previous 35 hours, but over 4 days - 1 being from home. I think it is doable, or I wouldn't have suggested doing it IYKWM.

Spirit I am feeling like you do - half want to go back but hald dreading leaving the baby. Its my 3rd child and my employers generally are very good about time off for school events etc/parental leave.

I think Head of Hr is being bitchy 'cos I complained about her friend, so she is gunning for me. I thought she wouyld rise above it until I saw her bitching about me at the work event.

I have also asked if I can have two short BFing breaks to express milk and a room to express in until the baby spaces out his feeds more (he's 6 months). They sent me a stiff e-mail saying they "are aware of the matter" and will get back to me about it. They can't even bring themselves to use the term breast feeding!! I bet no one has ever asked before for Bfing breaks!

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Original poster
foxcub · 31/08/2007 09:43

Bump

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Mossy · 31/08/2007 19:37

Foxy no advice but for you and I hope you manage to get it sorted out.

mamhaf · 01/09/2007 00:31

Hard as it is if he's being an arse, try to see it from your boss's perspective.
What would be his real concerns and how could you overcome them?
If you can show you've thought about the possible problems and can suggest ways to deal with those, he's far more likely to say yes.

twentypence · 01/09/2007 00:41

Using annual leave in this way is not something I am sure any of the managers I know would agree to.

However he doesn't even know about that and he is being an arse about the rest. But don't email him - call him and have a conversation with him and negotiate. Talking beats email because you can leave the long silence at the crucial moment and he will feel compelled to fill it (or ask you if you are still there )

Original poster
foxcub · 01/09/2007 10:21

Mamf - that's a good point - to think throgh what his concerns would be. I think they would be about ensuring cover and ensuring I am able to effectively manage my staff with a reduced presence in the office (the irony being of course that my boss himself is completely inaccessible as he is never there and when he is there forgets which meetings he is supposed to be in)

Twentypence - I agree its better to talk - not least because you can guage the tone of the other person's response (very hard to do with e-mails). I have left him 3 messages with no response.

I had to take a grievance out against him a few weeks ago as he refused to answer any of my e-mails/calls for all the time I have been on maternity leave.

He's a very nice chap but I wonder whether - in an unconcious way - he feels I am less important because I am the only woman in his team?

He'd already said in writing that he didn't see a problem with my new proposed hours, but HR have stuck their oar in and now he's talking about "issues" which need to be "bottomed" out and "not wanting to agree something which might not work"

I can't believe he serioulsy wants me to return on my old hours, and the negotiate my new hours once I've gone back. HTF does he think I am going to organise childcare for 3 kids if I can't even tell the childcarer what my permanent hours are going to be???

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Mellin · 01/09/2007 10:43

foxc - it sounds like your boss is doing his best to avoid the issue by not returning your calls/emails etc. As you are so close to work, can you perhaps arrange a face to face meeting in the next week to get everything out in the open?

I return to work next month after maternity leave. I made an application for flexible working months ago, which was being shunted from my manager to HR to admin in India!! for weeks with no resolution. So I rang my boss and HR and said I am coming in to resolve this. I had a meeting with my boss and HR and amazingly it was resolved that week.

It's easier to ignore something if it's just an email or phone message. It probably doesn't seem as important maybe? Anyway I think you are going to have to force the issue before you return to work. And if it means leaving voicemails and emails for your boss and HR saying "I am coming in on xday to discuss this" then do it.

Original poster
foxcub · 01/09/2007 11:02

Mellin - I think my boss wants to meet with me the w/b 10 Sept to discuss. What is ominous is he has said he "doesn't think all of the issues will be bottomed out" by 17th, which is my return date. This implies he is planning not to agree my application doesn't it?

I just need to think tactics....

That must have been so frustrating for you - I think the guidelines say they have to meet with you within 28 days then come to a decision with 14 days after that. I hope you got it resolved to your satisfaction.

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Original poster
foxcub · 01/09/2007 19:02

bump

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Original poster
foxcub · 01/09/2007 20:26

bump

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nappyneeds · 01/09/2007 22:40

dont they have to give a proper & valid reason why your requested hours wont work for the business? as in im sure they just cant say no to be difficult etc.

Original poster
foxcub · 02/09/2007 11:32

Yes I think they do need to give one of a range of 8 reasons and be able to demonstrate it (i.e. they can't just make one up) ???

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twentypence · 02/09/2007 19:55

"well if they aren't "bottomed out" then neither my top nor my bottom half will be returning until they are..."

What a revolting phrase!

FrayedKnot · 02/09/2007 20:12

foxcub bearing in mind what you have said about the job being perfect etc can you afford to lose it?

I would seriously have a fall back plan up your sleeve (how far could you compromise with them? What if they said you could do 4 days but had to be in the office, for e.g. - how would this leave finances / childcare?), etc etc

A friend of mine recently had her flexible working request turned down, and was offered an alternative pattern of the same hours (she wanted 2.5 days, they said half days or nothing) and she refused, so ended up resigning.

I would be very careful about getting into a stalemate, not withstanding the fact that obviously you don;t want to be bullied by them. I would definitely NOT agree to going back f/t, though. Get this resolved while you are still entitled to be absent. There are deadlines, as you say.

I think ahead of any meeting, I would prepare some alternative scenarios that might work so if they suggest something slightly different to your own suggestion, you cna see how it fits.

Mum2Lucas · 02/09/2007 20:31

I'm currently on mat leave with my second child but had a bit of negotiating to do regarding flexible working when I returned after my first child. I successfully negotiated a phased return doing 3 days for the first month then moving (and staying) at 4 days. I had wanted to work from home and argued that it would allow me 'quiet time' to work on complex problems and that it would also allow me time to work on confidential items regarding my team e.g. performance reviews. It's also a developmental opportunity for your team to be able to resolve issues in your absence. I received a 1.5 page document from my manager listing all the health and safety issues regarding working from home. I eventually moved team to a more 'family friendly' team and my new manager is more than happy for me to work from home whenever I want (team commitments permitting). I think it depends on the individual manager. It's hard to give advice when you don't know what aspect of your proposal he has a problem with. Can you quote examples of other employees working similarly? Also, do you have a union rep you can go to for advice?
Best of luck

Original poster
foxcub · 02/09/2007 22:20

Frayd/Mum2 - hmm, useful points - thanks

I have asked him to call me ahead of our meeting and may ask him what the sticking points are likely to be so that I can have a think around them.

As I am only trying to reduce my hrs from 35 to 30, I suspect its the "working from home 1 day a week" bit the company has a problem with. Another guy in my team works from home 2 days a week but manages projects rather than staff. Another guy also works from home, but informally rather than as an agreed part of his contract.

"Bottomed out" is a crap cliche isn't it? My most hated one is "let's park that thought for now"

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Original poster
foxcub · 02/09/2007 22:21

I would like to go in with some compromises up my sleeve, if only to look constructive. I would hate it to go to appeal etc

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twentypence · 03/09/2007 00:26

But you are reducing them by only 5 hours and then wanting to take one days leave every week for as long as you can - or have you "parked" that idea for now?

VeniVidiVickiQV · 03/09/2007 00:44

foxcub - i havent read the other replies so apologies if I am repeating other posts....

I think it helps if you can appear to be flexible with your application. So, rather than saying "this is the only way I can work it", suggest 2 or even 3 ways that you could work flexibly.

With each suggestion, emphasise the benefits that working like this could bring, and try and anticipate any problems and how you could work around them.

The Department of Trade and Industry (DTI) website has a lot of useful information on your rights and the timescales within which your employer has to work. look here

To be fair to your boss - they are entitled to a certain amount of time (28 days) to review your application, and you havent left yourself - or them much time.

Original poster
foxcub · 03/09/2007 15:26

Bump

yes I did leave it to the last minute didn't I?

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VeniVidiVickiQV · 04/09/2007 13:00

little bit...