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Original poster

returning to work after mat leave: I don't think my boss will agree my flexi hours application

64 replies

foxcub · 30/08/2007 19:32

I feel so very depressed about returning to work in 2.4 weeks. My boss has e-mailed me saying that it will take longer than that to process my flexi work application so he wants me to return on my old hours.

I am going to e-mail him saying I cannot return until I have childcare set up and I cannot arrange childcare until I have my hours confirmed, so will be postponing my return until its all agreed. That will give me at least another two weeks with my baby.

My plan was to work 3 days in office/1 at home. Taking one day accrued annual leave each week would mean only 2 days in office until January, which would be fine, but my boss is hinting he doesn't want to agree it (talking about the need to "bottom out" some "issues" around my proposed new hours ).

I am aware roughly of the rule, as around applying for stat flexible hours for parents with children under six but would really appreciate some advice on tactics regarding how to persuade him to accept my application to work flexibly.

I always meet my targets and so do my team and I have two fab managers who I can delegate too. 30 people in the org work flexi hours - many who are not even parents. I think he's just being an arse.

OP posts:
Original poster
foxcub · 04/09/2007 16:49

I have arranged meeting with my manager for next week.

Need to think tactics...

I'll have the kids with me so I am not sure whether its better to turn up with them (so he gets a grasp of the fact that I actually have caring responsibilities) or whether to bring a friend who can watch them in another room while I meet with him.

he's under a lot od pressure atm from other quarters so I wish he would just agree my hours and be done with it

OP posts:
VeniVidiVickiQV · 04/09/2007 16:52

oh dont take children with you!!!

He will be more likely to take onboard a "professional" attitude, than a Mum's attitude. Sad, but true......

flowerybeanbag · 04/09/2007 16:53

Foxcub feeling the need to return to this thread seeing your last post. Do not I repeat do not bring the DCs unless you absolutely have no other option at all.
Leave them elsewhere with the friend, or get friend to wait outside the building or go for a walk or whatever while you are having your meeting.
It will look unprofessional and will look as if you are likely to have childcare problems, neither of which will do you any favours.

Judy1234 · 04/09/2007 17:07

It's usually better for women, their marriages, their children and the country if they go back full time so may be consider that option.

But assuming you do want the shorter hours I don't think you're allowed to use annual leave like that legally by the way so that probably has to be stripped out. you have to use annual leave in the usual way, get it approved, make sure it fits in with other staff etc.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 04/09/2007 17:16

Xenia, without meaning to sound like the MN broken record....

That first paragraph of yours is a bloody huge ginormous sweeping statement that is utterly unfounded and without evidence.

Just thought I'd mention it

Judy1234 · 04/09/2007 17:20

But it's a solution to the issue. Also why women lumbered with all this dull housework stuff. Why not force her husband to be home if they really think the child needs a parent home on that extra day a week and can afford the loss of income? Always the women who suffer like this.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 04/09/2007 17:26

Again, you are over-generalising and stereotyping.

This isnt helping foxcub, is it?

Hurlyburly · 04/09/2007 17:34

at Xenia. You're very persistent with your cause. I think working full-time is a bit overrated, but then again I've done it for 17 years. The prospect of another 18 is not enticing.

To the OP. I agree with the poster telling you to sell the business benefits. If I were your manager, it really would put my back up if someone came in burbling about entitlements to this and rights to that and working from home and delegating everything.

The reason you'd put my back up is not because I was about to exploit you. I'd think this person is not looking at it from the firm's perspective. Where is the quid pro quo? What about this being a shared endeavour?

Also the comment about the people reporting to you really did worry me. Are they going to end up stressed and overburdened and not supported?

Don't go in like that. Go in thinking about all for one and one for all. You'll get more out of it for yourself that way too.

Original poster
foxcub · 04/09/2007 18:28

Hurly burly - that's really useful actually. I don't think I have mentioned my rights but emphasised how I can work more effectively by doing written work/reading from home and that past experience has shown it can be a more efficient way of getting stuff done. Also, stressed that I would be fully available and contactable on phone/e-mail. And that I can be flexible and come in on that day for meetings/events if need be.

Any other tips of what to say anyone?

Thanks VVV and Flowery for warning me off taking kids along. I simply do not have any childcare until I return to work, but can hopefully get a friend to take them over the park opposite or wait in the cafe with them, while I do my meeting. That's useful too.

Xenia - I agree to a point and the original arrangement was that DH would stay at home full time as I earn more than him, but we've now agreed we would both like to work flexible hours so he is home 2 days, me 2 days and we'll use a CM for the fifth day. That's a more equal way of doing it IMO. He is not as good at the stay at home stuff IMO and I don't want to hand it all over to him. Being able to get to the school at least twice a week really is very important to me and to my kids, who get upset if I never do the school run.

Regarding the A/L - I haven't mentioned this to boss. That's the way I took my accrued A/L the last two times, but I would obviously need to have it authorised in the normal way and it would be up to him whether he agreed it or not. I suspect we'd come to a compromise i.e. I could take some like that and some as blocks, no doubt at half term/Christmas. I agree it would be easier to take it 1 day a week if I was in the office for the other 4 days - not so easy if I am viewed as being p/t anyway.

OP posts:
Original poster
foxcub · 04/09/2007 18:31

What would be really useful actually is if anyone has some good arguements they themselves have used to get flexi hours agreed?

Any winning lines I could use?

OP posts:
TheDuchess · 04/09/2007 18:42

So on the day you are working from home you'd also have the children to look after. Not sure this would work...I work from home and have to arrange childcare in the same way as I would if I worked at the office. Maybe this is what your manager wants clarifying?

TheDuchess · 04/09/2007 18:44

Have a look at:

www.flexibility.co.uk

www.projectnomad.org.uk

flowerybeanbag · 04/09/2007 19:01

whoa whoa whoa, you are going to be doing childcare and working at the same time?
That's seriously not on. I am happy to help with reasons for flexible working, etc, give you tips on approaching the meeting, but I would never agree a request which involved someone working and also being responsible for children. You cannot possibly be giving your full attention to your work between the hours of 9 and 5 and also be responsible for children, and that would be unfair on members of staff who go in to the office and work.
Sorry if I have misunderstood, but this is something I feel strongly about and people who attempt to do this or think that it is a reasonable definition of 'flexible working' give working parents a bad name and make people not want to employ them in the first place.

Hurlyburly · 04/09/2007 19:06

Flowery is right. Was shocked by the suggestion that you would take your DCs to a meeting actually but thought I had already given you a bit of a tough time.

Now I want to know. What do you bring to your firm? Why do you feel that they owe you a living?

twentypence · 04/09/2007 19:13

I sometimes take my child to work - but I am a preschool music teacher, and he is a preschooler.

I work from home and often have him at home with no other childcare while I do research/paperwork - but I am self amployed and can do what I like.

This flexibility is why I am self employed and have chosen not to work for other people anymore.

Judy1234 · 04/09/2007 19:20

Yes, anyway people differ. I have been delighted to avoid the school run except as a rare treat. I wouldn't like it once a week if it were any distance away. I think it unsettles the children too - they like to know it's one person who meets them and have that consistency.

So the working at home and children there isn't allowed and nor is using your holiday as planned. Where does this leave the plan?

TheDuchess · 04/09/2007 19:35

Could work though if your work doesn't need to be done between hours of 9 and 5. If, for example, customers/clients don't contact you. If this is the case then I don't see why you couldn't do the work in the evening when your husband could do the childcare.

I do full time hours over 4 days and have a Wednesday "off." Longer days suit me and if I'm shattered after a sleepless night with the baby I do a shorter day and make up my hours in the evening or weekend. I also do ad hoc homeworking so I'm there when my daughter and the nanny are there but working.

It really helps to focus on objectives and deliverables rather than hours but I work for the public sector and hours are still an important input. You may be luckier and work for an organisation where outputs are more important.

Of course I am flexible and will swap my day off for another if work demands it.

Original poster
foxcub · 04/09/2007 20:28

My children would be at school on the day I work at home and the baby would be with the CM!!!

OP posts:
Original poster
foxcub · 04/09/2007 20:30

The Duchess I was previously doing what you are doing now - working a 35 he week compressed into 4 days

OP posts:
flowerybeanbag · 04/09/2007 20:33

apologies then, it sounded as though you were only going to use the CM for the 1 day a week where neither you or DH is at home.

I did assume you would be working a 'normal' 9-5 day as well, but of course if DCs are at school and baby at CMs when you would be working that's a different story - sorry for strong post but as you can tell, it's one of my serious bugbears!

Original poster
foxcub · 04/09/2007 20:35

Hurly I feel as though I am being forced to be defensive now. I have no wish to take my children to a meeting, but I do not have childcare on tap until I return to work. Which is why I mentioned it. My dilemna was whether to jsut turn up or whether to ask a friend to help me out.

I found people's comments on that point very helpful.

I do not need to "prove" what I bring to the job - I have immense experience in my field and would never presume that anyone owed me a living. The suggestion that I might have that attitude is insulting TBH.

Why do people feel they can jump on other posters and make all sorts of assumptions about them?

OP posts:
flowerybeanbag · 04/09/2007 20:37

x-posted, having now seen your last post I assume that the longer days you would have been doing with a compressed week would not apply if you would be in charge of children when they are not at school, so you will be reducing your normal hours as well?

I think I am going to step away now...

Original poster
foxcub · 04/09/2007 20:38

Flowery I have actually agreed for a member of staff who reported to me to work from home after school hours - i.e. knowing they have a DC at home, but that's because the output from that member of staff was excellent and I knew I could trust her to either do the work in those hours or make it up. She was a lone parent and it was solution which worked for everyone. She was the best and most productive person I have ever managed, DC at home or no DC at home.

Just wanted to make that point.

OP posts:
Original poster
foxcub · 04/09/2007 20:39

yes reducing them slightly FBB

I value your comments by the way

OP posts:
flowerybeanbag · 04/09/2007 20:40

Thank you
And I do apologise for any assumptions I made, and I hope you get something sorted from your meeting which works for you.