Not leaving on time

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My DS has his first job. Every shift he leaves 20-30 mins late - he doesn’t go until he’s told to go and is locked in (it’s a shop and he works after the shop closes). He’s being paid minimum wage. He’s been treated well apart from the lateness. I’m wondering if keeping him late is a breach of minimum wage laws.
He won’t complain but I’m thinking of complaining to head office

Every retail job I had when younger we were expected to stay after closing for cashing up/tidying. It wasnt paid. Not sure of the actual legalities though!

If it’s cashing up, final tidying/restocking etc then working after the shop closes is pretty normal. It would be noted as hours worked though and either given back in lieu time or paid to a quarter or half hour.

You mention a head office, so presuming it’s a chain? There should be a policy.

Posted a bit soon - your DS should check what the policy is. It’s good to get a bit of graft & hard work in above and beyond the specified hours, but not to the point of exploitation.

you can't complain to head office!

if he's not happy (and he's quite right not to be if it takes his wages to below minimum wage), he needs to speak up for himself, not get a parent to do it for him

In my previous job the first half hour of overtime was not counted and was “free” . We could get payment after that but otherwise it was collected as time in lieu.

I remember those days.
Last customer would leave at 6.00 or 6.05/10 on a bad day, then cashing up the till and locking up the building.
Signing out, waiting for bag checks etc etc.
Often 6.15pm on leaving.
Never paid...
Tis the curse of retail work...

That's normal. I used to work in retail and we had to wait until the last customer had left the shop, everything was tidy and the cashing up was done. All the staff were dismissed together at the same time. It was usually about 15/20 minutes past closing time and we didn't get paid for it.

I’m wondering if keeping him late is a breach of minimum wage laws

If he’s only on the NMW and working and not getting paid, yes it is. People on NMW earn little enough anyway without having the piss taken out of them.

I wouldn’t even speak to the manager, they might not speak to you anyway plus he might be mortified.

I’d just report them now for breach of the NMW rules. A NMW investigation is not fun for an employer.

And as for some of the other replies, this is the second thread on here in a few days where some people have suggested that low paid workers should work for free. What’s that all about?

My DS also has his first job in retail, I agree with PP’s part & parcel of working in retail. My DS would never speak to me again if I contacted his HO, I would leave to your son to deal with.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/pay-and-work-rights-complaints

This isn’t just retail.
I’m a dental nurse and we’re Paid from 8:30am. Yet to open up the surgery and actually set up ready for the first patient we have to arrive at least 30 minutes early. This isn’t paid.

So that’s 2.5 hours I could be being paid a week that I’m not. It’s so frustrating.

Yes I remember back in the day working thru uni at Kwik Save, finishing paid work at 7pm and it would be 7.15 to 7.30 every single day before we were 'allowed' to leave. No pay, no time in lieu. Over a week I could be working up to 3 hours unpaid. Multiplied by the number of employees just in the store I worked in that's a lot of free hours.

It's fucking disgraceful that this still goes on. It shouldn't be "part and parcel" of working in retail.

If your DS doesn't want to complain himself, have a look at their website and see if you can make an anonymous complaint. Definitely report them for a breach of the NMW rules.

20 minutes isn’t long at all. If I had a young staff member who made a fuss about that, I’d not think they were going anywhere career wise.
My 20 year old did internship in university holiday.She worked a minimum of an hour and a half extra each day. It lay-off with offer of good job.

As you sow is how you reap.

20 minutes isn’t long at all.

Except if it happens 5 days a week, it’s over an hour and a half. Over 6 hours a month. Over 72 hours a year. That could be a lot of money to someone on minimum wage.

Why do you think it’s OK for employers to break the law?

I think sometimes people cut off their noses to spite their faces. If my staff started counting the minutes, I’d do likewise. As they don’t generally, neither do I.

Every successful person has worked a few minutes over - often more - earlier on in their careers. The reward is quicker promotion and better opportunities. Nobody wants a clock watcher as an employee.
No harm in a 20 year old developing a strong work ethic. I’d be embarrassed if my children thought there was an issue with a few minutes extra work.

As you sow is how you reap

Same applies to employers who exploit low paid workers. NMW investigation, fines, back pay, and possible naming and shaming.

This is a young man on NMW in a shop job. I work over my contracted hours too for no extra remuneration but I’m in a professional salaried role earning well above the NMW so there’s an expectation.

Someone doesn’t have a poor “work ethic” because they don’t want to work for free in an already low paid job. You’re excusing illegal behaviour by employers. You can tart it up and be “embarrassed” all you like, but that’s what it is. I’d be “embarrassed” to be an employer who took advantage of my staff’s youth, naivety, and not wanting to make a fuss.

my dd was told to start her job earlier than 12.00 noon, come in 15 minutes before please.
but when she paid herself the extra 15 minutes she got bolloxed!
blooming employers!

I dont agree with unpaid extras

Thanks for your replies. Interesting that this is pretty much standard for retail.
DS is working four hours a day. Twenty minutes extra is therefore an additional 8 percent. The real killer though is his trains are one an hour so he’s an hour later home as those extra minutes mean he misses the train he was due to catch.
When he was interviewed he was told if he was late they wouldn’t interview him so it seems ironic they are making him late.
He won’t complain, it’s just not in his nature. He’s not moaning about it. I just think it seems wrong- like an abuse of the minimum wage laws.

Its abuse of power and wrong.

I say this as a someone with a background in retail HR

It certainly is wrong and unlawful. And your son should deal with it. Not you. If he doesn't want to deal with it, or if he isn't wanting to lose his job over this (he will, you know) then that is his business. It is wrong of you to interfere. And that is coming from someone who does think he should speak up. But it's his choice. Not yours.

It's wrong but employers treating staff like shit is so normalised it's depressing

how much extra can he stay before he misses his train?

What does his contract say?