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Original poster

Being managed out while on sick leave

47 replies

BucketResidence · 26/10/2019 09:00

Name changed for this. Have been at present company for five years. Six months ago my brother took his own life and I was the person who found him, it was truly horrendous. Subsequently I was diagnosed with PTSD, depression and anxiety and have been signed off work since then.
My line manager asked to meet me for coffee a few days ago for an ‘informal chat.’ I have been feeling a bit better and asked her about a phased return but She basically told me off the record that the company don’t want me to return to work for them as they deem me ‘too vulnerable’ and ‘fragile.’
She told me not to hand my notice in, that I should ‘play the long game’ and wait until the company offer a severance package. She reiterated that this chat was completely confidential.
Is this legal? I’m now panicking about having to start job hunting again soon when all I wanted was to get well and return to my old job.
Does anyone have any advice please?

OP posts:
ASpookyUsername · 26/10/2019 09:42

don't resign.

But submit a formal grievance about your line manager. He/She should not have said that to you, whether true or not. Its not in any way helpful.

It is disability discrimination. So submit a formal grievance about disability discrimination straight to HR and force their hand. You might find that HR will back track quickly and deny it.

Keep all communication. Join a union. Now. They can't help until 6 weeks have passed but my that point you might need them.

MT2017 · 26/10/2019 16:16

Wow, I completely disagree with pp.

Assuming you have no reason not to doubt your manager's intentions, it sounds to me like they were being very supportive of you in giving you the heads up.

Do nothing - I would do as she suggests and only then, when you have the p/w relating to this from your company, look at legal advice.

flowery · 26/10/2019 22:43

She may have thought she was being helpful but she absolutely was not, and was completely unprofessional as well.

There is nothing unlawful so far, no. No one has done anything. Your line manager has indicated they might do something. The conversation may be useful indication of intention as part of a future claim, but there is no such thing yet.

What do you want to do now?

donquixotedelamancha · 26/10/2019 22:48

But submit a formal grievance about your line manager.

If people above her have put pressure on her to find a way to get rid of OP then she may have felt she was doing the only right thing she could.

I would not be lodging a grievance unless I thought this conversation was intended maliciously.

Keep all communication. Join a union. Now.

I strongly agree with this.

ChicCauldron · 26/10/2019 22:52

Have you been off with depression or anxiety before this episode, OP?

If you have a fit note that is due to run out shortly, what would normally happen after someone has been off long-term sick - do you have an Occupational Health department, as they would normally be the ones to recommend a phased return to work. Your GP could put a note to that effect as well, but it's not binding on the company.

Companies can dismiss for sickness absence if they follow their procedures, but if this is the first you have heard of it then it seems unlikely. What communications have you had from them while you have been off?

Whatwouldbigfatfannydo · 26/10/2019 22:57

I was told by a union that they wouldn't help as the issue started before I joined.
If that's the case OP, gather every single shred of documentation you can (company policies, emails, medical evidence etc.) be prepared to argue your corner without union support.
Contact ACAS and CAB if you're in the UK.
Do not resign before raising a grievance (I would go higher than your line manager tbh). If you resign after the grievance you could possibly claim constructive dismissal.
They cannot discriminate against any disability. If you can prove their intentions, they will be tripping over themselves to cover their backs.
It may help to research some legal advice, many lawyers offer a free 30 minute consultation.

Whatwouldbigfatfannydo · 26/10/2019 23:00

And I'm sorry for your loss OP. Flowers
It's the very last thing you need but it may comfort you to think how you've survived much worse than the knobs you work for.
They should be valuing you as an asset to their organisation. You are not fragile or incapable in any way.

Boobiliboobiliboo · 26/10/2019 23:00

They cannot discriminate against any disability.

But employees with disabilities can still be dismissed (subject to correct procedure being followed).

Redcliff · 26/10/2019 23:33

I would hang tight and join the union. The situation (any kind of managing out process) has not yet started so could still be helpful. Given that what your manager said was off the record I would e-mail her saying that you would like a phased return to work and ask her what you need to do to start the ball rolling. How much longer does your sick pay last for?

Also can I just say how sorry I am about what you have been through- I can't imagine how horrible that must have been.

LaurieFairyCake · 26/10/2019 23:43

Where does it say the OP is disabled Confused

notacooldad · 26/10/2019 23:43

I was told by a union that they wouldn't help as the issue started before I joined
However an issue hasn't started yet. The manager has had an off the record conversation. There is no proof this had happened.
To use the well worn MN phrase OP needs to get her ' ducks in a row' and join a union if she hasn't already done so and as advised keep notes.

Whatwouldbigfatfannydo · 26/10/2019 23:59

@LaurieFairyCake

You’re disabled under the Equality Act 2010 if you have a physical or mental impairment that has a ‘substantial’ and ‘long-term’ negative effect on your ability to do normal daily activities.
Disability definition according to the Equality Act.

PTSD, depression and anxiety can all fulfil this prerequisite.

Whatwouldbigfatfannydo · 27/10/2019 00:03

@notacooldad

I know. When I needed help, that what I was told (pay dispute and I had to wait for 1st pay to be able to pay my dues! Total catch 22).

Obviously it would be great for OP if joining and getting help is straightforward but if never heard of them refusing to help before. Just giving a heads up that that response is a possibility.

LaurieFairyCake · 27/10/2019 00:08

Yes, the conditions can - I'm not sure 6 months is long enough though to be considered disabled?

Nat6999 · 27/10/2019 00:45

How long have you been employed by the company? If as your manager says they are trying to manage you out, do not resign, sit tight, keep on sending in fit notes, mention to your GP that you are being managed out. Speak to your union if you are a member, they should be able to supply a rep that can accompany you to all meetings or ACAS if you arent a member, you are entitled to take a colleague or union rep to any meetings with your manager & they should send you written minutes of all meetings, 2 copies, 1 you sign & send back, 1 you keep. I was off long term sick from my job, I had mental health problems & gynae problems that led to 4 operations in 9 months, I worked term time only, my manager was contacting me during school holidays which she shouldn't have done, ringing me the day after I had fairly big operations "just to see how I was" she even rang me when I was sat on the beach, I had a gap between operations when I wasn't well enough to work, it was school holidays, we had managed to go away for a few days to help me get fit enough for my second operation in 10 weeks. My union rep gave her an almighty telling off that she was harassing me, when it got to the stage I knew I wasn't going to be well enough to go back to work, my manager tried to only have me paid 50% of my severance money, my union rep fought & got me all of it, I had worked there for 27 years, my severance pay was nearly 2 years money, as a single parent, I needed every penny I could get.

Whatwouldbigfatfannydo · 27/10/2019 01:14

A person can go from abled to disabled immediately. Regardless, it's not up to OPs company to make that call. A medical professional has deemed her unfit for work as it stands.
Without speaking on her behalf, it's entirely possible that the aftermath of OPs experience will be lifelong and absolutely require the same compassion and adjustments afforded to anyone else with a disability.

cabbageking · 27/10/2019 01:40

You achieve nothing by making a complaint that she rebutes. She has armed you with information that allows you to view their actions in a new light.
Play the long game and keep this info in your arsenal.

OneHanded · 27/10/2019 01:53

Oh op I am so sorry. I relate with this too much, near word for word except ten months ago I failed my own attempt. I’ve been at my work five years too and am dreading a meeting next week. I’m sorry I have no advice but I am 100% behind you okay?

flowery · 27/10/2019 06:25

”you are entitled to take a colleague or union rep to any meetings with your manager“

Nonsense. You are only entitled to take a colleague or union rep to a formal grievance hearing or to a disciplinary hearing (or meeting under another formal process such as redundancy) where the outcome might be a formal sanction or dismissal.

Maybe at your work there was an internal policy allowing union reps/colleagues to all meetings, or maybe your work allowed it for you even though they didn’t have to, but that doesn’t mean it’s a legal entitlement.

GemmeFatale · 27/10/2019 07:03

Technically it doesn’t matter if the OP is disabled if the company consider her MH issues to be disabling (and it sounds like they do with all this fragile talk) then that’s enough to qualify it as discriminatory.

Likewise if a team discounted an application because it has a ‘woman’s’ name on it it’s sex discrimination even if ‘Lesley’ happens to be a male Les.

OP if they do try to manage you out you can make a request under the data protection act for all paperwork that mentions you including emails, etc. It’s worth making sure the wording is perfect on that request. A friend managed to prove sex based discrimination because their management was stupid enough to email one another about the fact she was ‘too fat’ to represent them.

Nicola1892 · 27/10/2019 07:15

Don’t resign, she’s being a snake. You can take a max of 13 weeks off before your employer can let you go but they can also let you go if the illness will stop you from doing your role for the foreseeable future as you class as “not fit for the job” or “no longer able to do your job” I would call ACAS as they are amazing with helping with employment law x

zsazsajuju · 27/10/2019 07:59

There’s so much inaccurate advice here op. Please get specialist legal advice.

I certainly wouldn’t raise a grievance against your manager. She may have been trying genuinely to help you.

Boobiliboobiliboo · 27/10/2019 08:27

You can take a max of 13 weeks off before your employer can let you go

WTF have you got that from?!

flowery · 27/10/2019 08:35

” Technically it doesn’t matter if the OP is disabled if the company consider her MH issues to be disabling (and it sounds like they do with all this fragile talk) then that’s enough to qualify it as discriminatory.”

Qualify what as being discriminatory? They haven’t done anything yet.

flowery · 27/10/2019 08:44

”You can take a max of 13 weeks off before your employer can let you go....,I would call ACAS as they are amazing with helping with employment law”

Not that amazing if they fed you that nonsense...