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Original poster

Is my HoD being unreasonable in wanting me to go in for a meeting while still on maternity leave?

70 replies

Kathyis6incheshigh · 14/08/2007 14:51

Esp. bearing in mind that I will have to bring one or both children with me?
Is this normal? Has he not really thought it through, do you think?
Would I look like I'm being unco-operative if I refuse or at least say that what with childcare issues it will have to be on my terms?

OP posts:

Dottydot · 15/08/2007 13:12

Kathy - sorry, didn't see your first message! I think I'd be happy to either pay the childcare costs or meet at a time convenient to you, rather than set the date and time without checking if that was OK with you. So yes, that sounds reasonable to ask if you can put in a claim for the £90, or meet on another day.

fishie · 15/08/2007 13:15

kathy has he said won't pay childcare? maybe he's just expecting you to put in for expenses. it really would be astonishingly out of order for him to ask you to do a four hour journey and arrange childcare all out of your own pocket.

(oh dear that isn't coming out right) i just mean you'd have grounds for serious complaint, not that i don't believe you!

Original poster

Kathyis6incheshigh · 15/08/2007 13:30

Maybe he is, Fishie - it didn't occur to me to ask
I need to get more clued up.

OP posts:

flowerybeanbag · 15/08/2007 13:31

ooh, and if you are on unpaid portion of leave there is also no reason you can't be paid normal rate for this.

slalomsuki · 15/08/2007 13:34

Why don't you ask him if he will pay you at the VL rate for your time and that way you should get something back

fishie · 15/08/2007 13:39

ooh goody, lets start totting up the bill...
magazine on train
nice sandwiches
meeting prep (mumsnetting time)

Original poster

Kathyis6incheshigh · 15/08/2007 17:27

LOL Slalomsuki, like that would make me very popular in my dept....
I think they would think I was taking the piss, quite frankly.

OP posts:

fedupwasherwoman · 15/08/2007 17:34

Can you get him to agree to have a day off in lieu when you return to work. You could then start being paid for your return to work one day earlier than the day you do actually return ?

Hope that makes sense

Original poster

Kathyis6incheshigh · 15/08/2007 17:39

From the point of view of my time that would make sense, but it wouldn't help with the childcare money thing, because once we have fulltime nursery places for our dcs we will be paying for those places even if I'm at home and able to look after them for an extra day.
Thanks for suggestion though

OP posts:

RibenaBerry · 15/08/2007 17:40

I agree with what others have said. Although KIT days don't apply, it does not seem unreasonable to want to meet given how soon you are going back. However, I don't see why you should take a financial hit if it's hard for you (if, for example, you were a city fund manager, my sympathy would be less and I'd say 'for god's sake, just pay the damn fees')

I would be dead blunt with your manager and say "I really want to come in and have this meeting. However, I'm right at the end of my unpaid maternity leave and I just can't afford to put my children in childcare for the meeting. It will cost me £90. I can either bring them with me; we could agree to expense my childcare costs for attending, or I'm afraid it will need to wait until my first day back after leave or be done over the phone."

Brutally honest, aren't I?

Original poster

Kathyis6incheshigh · 15/08/2007 17:53

Blunt is good. I can do blunt.

OP posts:

RibenaBerry · 15/08/2007 18:09

As others have said, if your manager is essentially a good guy, he probably has no idea that this is a problem for you and that you are agonising over this.

If you are totally blunt, the ball is in his court. Plus, he will feel like a total arse if he says "well I really want you to come in anyway" if you've told him you're too skint! He might say "oh my god, I had no idea, of course you can expense it" or he might say "oh my god, I had no idea it was such a problem, we'll do it when you're back". Most of the time, people are nice if you give them a chance to be!

Original poster

Kathyis6incheshigh · 15/08/2007 18:24

Thank you RibenaBerry. That's very helpful indeed.
I think I will do exactly that.

OP posts:

Tamum · 15/08/2007 19:24

I agree that this would be a reasonable request if you weren't living so far away; as it is I think it is unreasonable. I have to say, I know this isn't the main point but I am absolutely gobsmacked about the PhD supervision issue. I always had weekly meetings at my house with mine when I was on leave- they were quite happy to get out of the lab for an hour and play with the babies, and I can't imagine having to try and hand them over to someone else. I am [shock}

Tamum · 15/08/2007 19:25

Err, that would be ed...

elliott · 15/08/2007 19:34

Do you think these is any chance that he is going to spring something on you at this meeting? Has he said exactly what its about?
It seems to me quite odd that he is insisting on it so persistently, when he knows its going to be difficult, and when I can't really see what is so important that can't wait until day one? (I work in HE too btw). Maybe I'm being paranoid but I also think its odd that your students were removed from you...

RibenaBerry · 15/08/2007 20:05

I don't think that it's odd that the students were removed. As I read it, the whole point was to stop Kathyis being over enthusiastic and working away through her maternity leave. Really, even if you want to, they shouldn't be letting you work (and that includes PhD supervision) during your maternity leave. Plus, they'll be paranoid about being sued by someone who didn't want to supervise during leave but felt it was 'expected'. I'd have done the same thing if I was her boss.

As I read it, the manager isn't being insistent about the meeting. He's suggested it and Kathyis would quite like to do it. The only thing the manager has been insistent about (as I read it) is not bringing the kids with her. To be honest, I think that's fair enough. It's then in his court whether he pays for childcare or waits until Kathyis is back. But I do agree with him that it's a nightmare to do a proper meeting about the next year if a baby starts to yell at the crucial moment! I can understand why that's not his favoured option.

Kathyis - if you have no desire to go to the meeting. Tell him to naff off and you'll do it on day one after leave. I read it more (from your follow up comments) as willing to go, see the point, but having to deal with the practical problems. If that's not right, set me straight and I'll back off!

Original poster

Kathyis6incheshigh · 15/08/2007 20:34

Ribena, that is spot on, on both counts.

Tamum - I think perhaps in arts subjects you have a less close relationship with your students' work than in sciences, so it's easier to hand students over. Certainly it is absolutely standard to have a stand-in supervisor during maternity (or other) leave; I don't think there was anything sinister about it, though I was disappointed they were not able to be more flexible (which would have benefited my students above all).

Elliott - I think he's almost bound to be springing something on me, whether it's a massive new administrative responsibility or the news that everyone who isn't being put in for the RAE is to be publicly flogged.
I think, though, it's likely that he hasn't thought about the fact that it is going to be difficult - he may well just be thinking 'oh, Kathy can spare a couple of hours'.

I would hazard a guess that he has no idea how much childcare costs - I would love to say to him 'So, how much do you think a day in childcare costs? £10? £20?'!

OP posts:

elliott · 16/08/2007 09:28

OK, well if it was here, I think it is likely that the role of the main supervisor would be changed for the duration of the maternity leave - but we normally have 2 or three co-supervisors so it would be easy to transfer the official responsibility to one of the others in the team. That way,the person on maternity leave, if they were keen to be involved, would still be able to be, but with an official named supervisor who clearly wasn't on maternity leave. The bit I think is odd is that someone who wanted to be involved in the last stages of a student's submission was prevented from doing so.

tigger15 · 21/08/2007 20:19

Don't know if you've had the meeting yet but the position used to be that legally your HoD isn't allowed to ask you when you're coming back at all. The assumption is that if you have the right to take a whole year then they can expect you back on a whole year. Failure to keep to this is a basis for a sex discrimination claim.

Everyone is right in saying that any pay you receive may cancel out all your maternity allowance if the baby is born before 1 April 2007.

Reasonable contact is allowed providing employer hasn't initiated the meeting about an early return to work. Considering the cost of childcare, I suggest that you have the meeting by phone at a time when the kids are asleep.

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