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Original poster

Job advertised without knowledge

28 replies

Dumbfounded99 · 08/10/2019 19:45

At a bit of a loss really. Have been recommended a job on linked in that is my job and unsure if I have any rights.... bit of context:

  • Been in role less than two years
  • Am one of the senior management, and the only person who does my specific technical role AND the job spec is def mine as I wrote it and its my words.
  • No performance issues raised, no negative feedback given at all. Have proactively tried every few months to get any feedback and its all been you are doing a great job, doing what we need etc etc.
  • Have been increasingly feeling like I have been left out of things (for example I work 4 days a week but there is a key meeting that is being held behind my back on my day off).
  • I have raised with my boss (the CEO) that I have felt excluded and on the back foot on some certain issues and have been repeatedly told that I am being paranoid and been dismissed.

So at the end of the day they want to get rid of me. I suspect my face doesnt fit anymore and that is absolutely fine. I actually was working as a contractor with this company for 9 months and resigned because I didnt feel it was the right fit for me, and after 6 months gone they begged me to come back 18 months ago on a perm basis, so its a bit of a kick in the teeth but whatever, its business.

I guess my question is - what are my rights if anything? I know its under 2 years but surely advertising my role before dismissing me is not on? And secondly, how do I play this? Do I just wait for them to dismiss and payout my notice to me, as I think it's going to take them at least 4 months maybe 6 to get a replacement for me anyway (most people at my level at 3 months if not 6 months notice).

Any advice?

OP posts:
RueCambon · 08/10/2019 19:49

Wow. Id job hunt quickly so you can be in the position of jobhunting with a job.

That is massively confusing and hurtful. Get another offer and resign on the grounds that they excluded you from your own job by holding the meeting on yr one day off.

Boobiliboobiliboo · 08/10/2019 19:52

How long until you have 2 years service? What’s the notice they have to give you to terminate?

There’s nothing explicitly wrong with them doing this legally as you have few employment rights at this stage. They definitely aren’t following any sort of best practice though.

Original poster
Dumbfounded99 · 08/10/2019 19:54

Thanks. Am job hunting (started when I found out about the meeting on my day off a few weeks ago) but jobs are thin on the ground! I suspect I will be out of a job before I find something else that is suitable.

I am - as my name says - dumbfounded!

OP posts:
Original poster
Dumbfounded99 · 08/10/2019 19:56

@ boobiliboobiliboo - I don't have 2 years service for another 6 months. Its three months' notice to terminate. I suspected that it wasnt illegal to do this - but honeslty I cant see how moral it is! surely just get rid of me and then advertise... its been up for 5 days already!

OP posts:
Countrylifeornot · 08/10/2019 20:01

Go and see the CEO tomorrow, tell her you've seen the advert and suggest she puts you on gardening leave. At least you'll have 3 months to find a new job whilst still getting paid.

namina · 08/10/2019 20:10

You need to speak to them! Could they possibly be hiring an extra person to work alongside you?

Original poster
Dumbfounded99 · 08/10/2019 20:19

@namina - absolutely not. This role is a specialist senior management role which only one person needs to do given the size of the firm.

@Countrylifeornot - have now organised to speak to an employment lawyer to get my barings. I sure as hell dont want to speak to the CEO without knowing what my rights (or lack of!) are. I dont want to be on gardening leave now tbh as job hunting over christmas is pretty shitty and will delay me getting something. Best case is to eek this out and then hope to perhaps get them to put me on gardening leave at the end of the month so I have until end of Jan /Feb to secure...

OP posts:
flowery · 08/10/2019 20:42

Unless you think they have done this for some discriminatory reason, you have no rights. They can dismiss you whenever they like by giving the correct notice, and you can’t claim constructive dismissal which is I assume what you’re thinking of, and would be the claim you’d be looking at if you had enough service.

I assume that it might take a while to recruit someone so they wanted to make a start before dismissing you but obviously that was risky as you’ve seen it.

Are you really going to pretend not to have seen it?

ChicCroissant · 08/10/2019 20:46

But you don't know anything yet - you need to speak to them to say you've seen the same role as yours advertised, to see what they say. Don't second-guess their motives, that does make you look paranoid - just ask them.

What aspect are you seeking legal advice on?

Original poster
Dumbfounded99 · 08/10/2019 21:12

@chicCroissant - just to get my bearings really, and to confirm what they would need to do in terms of contract termination, and what reasonably I can push for in terms of gardening leave/pay out of notice. I want to be prepared for when I do have the conversation with them and ideally, I want that conversation to be on my terms at my timing if I can.

Re motives who knows and not trying to second guess - have no idea apart from the fact that my face for some reason doesn't fit anymore. And I am grown up enough to understand that there is no going back on this if they have made this decision. I can't change their mind and to be honest I wouldn't want to.

OP posts:
RueCambon · 08/10/2019 23:49

I would pretend not to have seen it!

OP has to keep going in until she finds another job. And if they think she doesn't know then she can line up her questions, come across very calmly. If she brings it to them it will be a bit tense. Not OP's doing but they'll view it that way.

flowery · 09/10/2019 06:04

” to confirm what they would need to do in terms of contract termination”

As I’ve said, all they’d need to do is give you the correct notice.

”...and what reasonably I can push for in terms of gardening leave/pay out of notice“

You can’t “push” for anything. They can require you to work your notice if they want to. I expect they won’t want you to, in which case they will either need to pay you in lieu of notice or put you on garden leave.

Go and see a lawyer if you want, but you really don’t need to. This is in the ‘irritating but not at all unlawful’ camp, and as long as, if they do dismiss you, you get your contractual notice, there will be nothing unlawful about it.

TheBlessedCheesemaker · 09/10/2019 06:47

Flowery is 100% correct. And no point going to s lawyer.
Head down, ramp up the job search, and be super nice and non-confrontational at work is best way to go. If you get arsey they will feel justified in what they are doing, whereas being fabulous will make them either (a) regret everything when you leave them in the lurch or (b) feel guilty when they do serve you notice. Both of these far better mentally (and possibly financially) for you than confronting them.
Different story/different ways to play at it if you had 2 years under your belt.

historysock · 09/10/2019 07:58

A similar thing happened to me a few weeks ago. A job with a very similar role profile, a similar but different job title and more money was advertised. I was told I would need to apply for what is effectively my current role. I looked for and found another job fairly quickly. I've then handed in my notice and been told I need to give them three months! I said no to that-they looked for my contract and it conveniently turned out they 'couldn't find it'-I think because it would have shown clearly that they couldn't advertise my job (albeit with a different title-but it's more than 66% the same role according to the profile which I believe is the cut off for advertising as a new role). I've therefore said I will give them two weeks notice.
They haven't accepted that either 🤷🏽‍♀️
The union have said that since I don't have a contract allegedly I can just leave-but it's a horrible way to end a job.

Boobiliboobiliboo · 09/10/2019 08:23

they looked for my contract and it conveniently turned out they 'couldn't find it'-I think because it would have shown clearly that they couldn't advertise my job

There would NEVER be a clause regarding this in an employment contract.

The union have said that since I don't have a contract allegedly I can just leave-but it's a horrible way to end a job.

You need to complain. That simply isn’t true.

Why don’t you have a copy of your contract?

m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4096

historysock · 09/10/2019 09:29

I didn't say it was a clause in the contract. If a job is advertised when someone is already doing that job (in terms of role profile being almost identical) then I've been informed that that's not legal (assuming there are no performance issues with said person and that they are qualified for the new post-both of which are accurate in my case).

I don't have a copy of my contract as mine was misplaced during a house move. I TUPE over to current role with lots of other staff last year. I would assume under TUPE law that contracts would be transferred to new employer.

Who are you are advising me to Complain about? The union?

It's all kind of immaterial really as I want to leave-but they aren't accepting my notice. Which seems pointless to me.

Doyoumind · 09/10/2019 09:44

I had something similar happen to me at a similar level. I did confront them as it was part of something bigger and it wasn't a good workplace for any of its employees. I knew there was nothing I could legally do as I had been there less than two years. They either stopped looking or didn't find anyone as I was actually particularly well qualified to do the role.

Eventually the company got into serious difficulties because it was so badly run, so sometimes what goes around comes around.

Boobiliboobiliboo · 09/10/2019 09:51

I didn't say it was a clause in the contract. If a job is advertised when someone is already doing that job (in terms of role profile being almost identical) then I've been informed that that's not legal

I don’t know who informed you, but they are wrong.

The TUPE may complicate things slightly, but it is not unlawful to advertise a job someone is already doing.

ChicCroissant · 09/10/2019 14:26

It is perfectly legal to advertise a job that someone is already doing, whether they know about it or not, historysock. You need to give a week's notice if you have been in a job more than a month. Your Union's advice is disappointingly wrong, they are usually good at employment advice.

BubblesBuddy · 09/10/2019 14:36

You have a contract of employment. By accepting the job and getting paid. What you don’t have is a written contract of employment. I’m amazed anyone goes to work without a written one! It clarifies basic issues to the benefit of all.

historysock · 09/10/2019 15:36

I've given a months notice. The unions advice was a week. Work aren't accepting it as they are trying to hold me to an allegedly contractual three months and are simultaneously trying to say the job title I TUPE over with is not my actual job title-effectively demoting me in terms of title (but not salary or responsibility). Job title is non provable without contract except I held that job for 18 months before TUPE and the job title they are saying is mine didn't actually exist in the previous company.
They've done this Without ever having discussed my job title with me and have then advertised my job. I'm fairly sure they haven't followed standard HR procedures there...

I agree re the contract. I have been naive. But I had obviously seen it before TUPE and trusted contract would go over with everyone else's-no one had to sign anything new so it didn't come up as being an issue until now.

historysock · 09/10/2019 15:37

Again, I don't care enough to fuss about any of it but I want to leave without them accusing me of not working my notice.

Itsreallymehonest · 09/10/2019 16:33

Why don't you apply for the job anonymously and see what happens?

historysock · 09/10/2019 17:12

Because I just want to leave with no fuss...
It's a truly horrible place to work quite honestly. 5 managers the same level as me have quit in the last 2 months. Our boss is a bully and actively seems to act against the best interests of the people we are meant to be looking after (social care) at times just so she can say she has got her own way.
I've never worked in this kind of atmosphere before-and I hope I never do again.

ChicCroissant · 10/10/2019 19:40

I think you've had a name change fail there, OP - if you report your posts to MN they can fix that for you (guess how I know that they can Grin )

If you TUPE'd then it should have been on the same terms and conditions as your role - so if you've got the contract from that, I'd be sending them a copy!