Breaks and personal phones - advice/opinions

[OrangeSunset]

Not an issue, yet. Just seeking some advise/opinions.

I manage a small team and have two ‘niggles’ to iron out.

Some have work and personal phones, some have only work phones which they use for personal too.
Breaks - we have been fairly informal about breaks, some people always have one, some people never do, work through lunch and leave ‘earlier’. This results in an exodus quite early in my opinion. As an aside, I feel that those who are still working 4pm-6pm end up more ‘up against it’ than those who start work 7.30am to 9am as the tasks of the day need finishing.

Team has grown significantly in last year. And we now have young people in the team. I want to ensure we are being fair, consistent and meeting business need. And that we are setting clear expectations for new folk.

Some comments have been made by others re personal phones and use during the day. Some of the personal phone users have been asked to put them away, but in return have pointed out that others have personal stuff on their work phones. Fair enough.

What I want to do is the following;
Personal phones away except for at breaks. Clarity for those with one handset that they aren’t expected to use it for personal reasons except at breaks in interests of fairness.
A mandatory break of at least 30mins away from desk except in exceptional circs. For some this will mean getting to work 30mins earlier or staying 30mins later than they do currently. We do 8 hr day excl breaks.

All the above covered by contracts and policies. BUT it is a change to the way we have done things.

First, am I being reasonable? Two, how do I do this without p’ing everyone off?

The phones isn't a benefit in kind. It was previously but no longer, I assume that due to the price of mobile contracts.

The contracts state a minimum break. We also communicate a little while ago we wanted everyone to take a break away from their desks. This is a restatement of existing conditions. I'm just trying to guage how it might be received.

I think the bigger issue is that of trust and managing performance. I do find the line between micro-management and absent management very fine.

Genuinely, I am not sure I've worked for more than 1 or 2 people who've got this right in 20 years. Is there a definitive book on the subject?

Being a parent and having a pet doesn't trump employment law. And even if staff have got used to working through lunch, it must be changed. Anyone wanting to argue the toss could be pointed towards three EWTD, it's very clear on breaks. Am surprised at the lack of knowledge by managers on this tbh.

How long is it do you think they've been allowed to do this work-without-a-break-and-leave-early thing OP?

The fact that it breaches the Working Time Regs is certainly justification to change it, so that won't be a problem, but how long they've been doing it might affect how you make that change. Also, whether it's been officially sanctioned or have they just started leaving earlier than they technically should gradually and no one picked up on it or something?

I had a whole thread about this. My employers are really relaxed about things like this, and we’re allowed on phones, leaving early, or coming early. Everyone has their own job and nobody’s deadlines affect the other person, so you’re pretty much doing your own work. We have a new manager who kept stopping me from using my phone my interrupting every time I used it the first week. I felt really uncomfortable and didn’t want to get on with work, because it was so demeaning. She’s been here a few weeks now, and after a few meetings with senior management and having 3 work lunches over the last week that have lasted more than 2.5/3hours she’s realised how relaxed we are, and her phone has come out too.

You can’t treat people like kids and plan people’s breaks. If you were working in a demanding job, it would make sense. But office work?!

You think people who leave on the dot don’t work as well; are you paying them to stay over time? Do they have incentive? Staying longer at work doesn’t mean you’re better at a job, I’d think you have bad time management if you stay on every day.

I think setting rigid rules will really piss people off. You come across as not trusting and a really bad micro manager ready to excise your managerial power to show people who’s boss. This will not make your happy workers happy. But whatever.

I remember your thread Ghostpost. You were the person who was on their phone for "a few minutes, every 10/15 minutes" and unable to understand why your manager was less-than-thrilled.

Your phone issue sounds like it would create a totally miserable working environment. I wouldn't work for you!

I hate it when companies make blanket rules when really it's unnecessary. Deal with the specific offender! If youngsters are using their phone too much then specifically take those people aside and tell them so!

"I’ve read it takes 15mins to return to concentration after a distraction"

Nope. Not for me.

I was thinking the same @flowery - most of the replies we along the lines of get off your sodding phone at work then!

I think it would be unusual and therefore antagonistic to ban minor phone use. Sounds like the issue is one more of attitude and productivity. So best address that than make draconian rules.

In my work place (9-5) we have breaks between 12 and 2 rota basis. We dont have a choice. If you dont want to eat fine but you have to take the break. Business phone is to be used for business only. We have an emergency number we can give to spouses close relatives childcare providers etc and they ring that in emergency and someone will come and get you. You cannot use it for personal use in work time at all.

The only time they bend the rules is if you are expecting a call for an app etc. Or say I have a dr app at 5 I would be allowed to work through lunch and leave at 4 but only at manager's discretion

I am honestly surprised at how many think personal time on a phone during working time is appropriate and a right. It seems particularly prevalent in offices - I wouldn’t expect to see eg cabin crew having a quick
check of their notifications, or any of the staff in the numerous shops I went in today having their phone on their counter in view.

The UK is pretty terrible for productivity, maybe this is why!

Breaks can be any time from 12-2, we don’t need a rota. So there is flexibility there.

To reiterate I am not expecting anyone to work over their hours routinely as we work long hours as it is. BUT everyone knew the hours and break requirements when they signed the contract.

It really is a thankless task at times!

hannah do you work in an office?

Yes I do. In a team of 10. We have pur lunch breaks on a rota between 12 and 2. We have an emergency number to give to who needs it. We are not allowed to use phones for personal purpose in the office. Only time we are allowed to skip lunch and leave early is if we have an appointment etc but its manager's discretion

OP you 'don't expect people to routinely work over their hours', which means you do expect extra work sometimes. Who pays for that?

I'd hate to work with you as the manager of the team. I don't have a manager, but if the team I worked with was managed by someone with your mindset even I'd finding it stifling.

MrsMozart that’s really harsh - do you really know me enough to make that statement?

People have worked over their hours/out of hours, agreed in advance for specific projects, and been a choice of payment or time off in lieu.

However if it’s ‘staying’ 10 mins to finish something off, that’s different.

I have worked in many large corporates, not as a manager, where at least half the team routinely work over for no extra pay.

Re the ‘10 mins to finish something off, dare I say, that they’d have got finished in the day if they hadn’t have been texting, natch.

No I don't know you. I can only go by what you're writing on here and how you come across on here.

You're saying people can't have personal phone time but you expect that they'll do extra time when needed, or have I completely misunderstood?

Very surprised at this thread and people saying they'd feel patronised if they were told to put their phone away. You're paid to work. People in retail aren't allowed their phones out so what makes you so special??

Have you considered asking them to create a group code of conduct around things like use of phones (you can throw in email etiquette and a few other things too to make it sound more impactful)? If it comes from them they are more likely to buy into instead of tolerate it.

Wow, how to really knock someone’s confidence. I’m asking for advice, not stating what I’m going to do.

Turn your statement around. People should be able to spend time whilst being paid to do a job on their personal phone, and leave on the minute every day? That doesn’t seem quite so reasonable either.

spinn yes it is something I’ve considered. However there are two distinct camps and the ‘phone and leave on time crew’ are probably more vocal/assertive’ than the ‘no phone and go the extra mile (I don’t just mean in minutes worked)’ crew. I am still considering if I want to expose the divide by having a team discussion.

I'm going back to a comment earlier on re gdpr and data confidentiality with staff using work phones as personal.
Are their settings of fb, insta, LinkedIn etc set to pick up contacts from their emails? The apps are so invasive to the phone and pick up so much that I would be very uncomfortable with staff using work mobiles for personal use. Handover when people leave and that number goes to the new member of staff and spends half the time fielding calls from estate agents/dentists/banks etc as numbers haven't been updated just make it a nightmare (I've had my work phone for 3 years after it was handed over from someone else and I got a passport reminder for them today!)

spinn I don’t disagree, however that’s a business-level decision and out of my hands. Pretty confident it’s common in our sector to be given a handset.

Straw poll, is anyone else issued with a device they can use for personal too?

I wouldn’t expect to see eg cabin crew having a quick check of their notifications, or any of the staff in the numerous shops I went in today having their phone on their counter in view.

No, because it’s a different work environment. Surprised you can’t get your head around that. If you work as a nurse for example, and you have your phone out whilst working: that’s bad as it’s unprofessional. When you work in an office and if you have your own workload to manage, then dictating breaks is really shit. If someone came and told me I need to move away from my desk for x amount of time, I’d tell them to F off. I decide when I leave and how long I leave for. Adults manage time and breaks.

You talk about lack of productivity, but have you thought that maybe the problem is this nannying and dictating and not allowing young people to build up a work ethic by themselves? If you gave people breathing space, people would want to work.