Breaks and personal phones - advice/opinions

[OrangeSunset]

Not an issue, yet. Just seeking some advise/opinions.

I manage a small team and have two ‘niggles’ to iron out.

Some have work and personal phones, some have only work phones which they use for personal too.
Breaks - we have been fairly informal about breaks, some people always have one, some people never do, work through lunch and leave ‘earlier’. This results in an exodus quite early in my opinion. As an aside, I feel that those who are still working 4pm-6pm end up more ‘up against it’ than those who start work 7.30am to 9am as the tasks of the day need finishing.

Team has grown significantly in last year. And we now have young people in the team. I want to ensure we are being fair, consistent and meeting business need. And that we are setting clear expectations for new folk.

Some comments have been made by others re personal phones and use during the day. Some of the personal phone users have been asked to put them away, but in return have pointed out that others have personal stuff on their work phones. Fair enough.

What I want to do is the following;
Personal phones away except for at breaks. Clarity for those with one handset that they aren’t expected to use it for personal reasons except at breaks in interests of fairness.
A mandatory break of at least 30mins away from desk except in exceptional circs. For some this will mean getting to work 30mins earlier or staying 30mins later than they do currently. We do 8 hr day excl breaks.

All the above covered by contracts and policies. BUT it is a change to the way we have done things.

First, am I being reasonable? Two, how do I do this without p’ing everyone off?

I was assuming that people were doing what they tried to do at my place and work through their lunch so they could leave early.

Eg at our place we are paid for 8 hours 8.00am - 4.30pm with half an hour lunch & 10 min morning tea break. People were working through lunch and leaving st 4pm.

Why would making sure people take their break mean they have to come in half an hour earlier or stay longer

We do this where I work. Our breaks are unpaid,so it means that we get paid /6/7/8 hours without losing the 20 minutes/half hour taken for a break- for example if it's 10-5,we either start at 9.30 or finish at 5.30,if it's a 20 minute break,we start at 20 to the hour or finish at 20 minutes past.

I think it also makes it easier for the boss to work out the rotas regarding our contracted hours,some of us are on 20 hours,others are more or less hours a week.

I think you can’t force them to take a break, but you can stop people leaving early or coming in late because they didn’t take a break. I think these days personal phones out is acceptable but I’d warn people individually if they are overly distracted by their phones.

Send a memo out something along the lines off
The company have reviewed health and safety and work time legislation and in order to be compliant require that the working day look like this
Hours of work are 9 to 5
An unpaid break of 30 mins is to be taken between 12 and 2 on a Rota basis.
Any individual choosing to not take this break will not be compensated for that time at any other time during the day
No food in the offices ... a break area is provided and has been stocked with tea/coffee & equipment to heat lunch up and also a vending machine.
Any individual wishing to adapt the 9 to 5 hours must submit a formal request. Each case will be considered in its own merit alongside the needs of the business

I would firm up the working day arrangement first before the phone issue is broached. What u think?

The break thing I agree with, the phone thing not at all.

I wouldn't work somewhere that told me I couldn't have my phone on my desk or look at during the day.

If employees are taking the piss then address them individually, don't lump them all in together.

You know, let adults act like adults 🙄

Agree - treat adults like adults (even young adults 😉)

I would focus more on the work and the culture and less on writing up rules.

Interesting.

Those not taking a break currently are doing an 8-4pm straight. I will clarify this. They are able to come in at 7.30am if they wish to leave at 4pm.

The point about culture is interesting. We have some people (older generation, me included) whose phones are away or personal stuff not looked at. The younger ones view it as more of a right. So the ‘unwritten rules’ are interpreted differently by different groups.

They are all on silent, but I definitely notice that the on screen notification gets looked at. So I will ask that those are turned off during work hours. Reasonable?

Interesting we have a new starter (younger than 29, first job). He pointed out the ‘game tiles’ on his Windows screen that pop up when you go to ‘Start’ to find something. He asked me how to remove them as he found them too tempting. I haven’t seen a personal phone, so he clearly has his away through choice.

*Younger than 20

If they come in at 7:30, they have to leave at 4:30.

I think it’s fine to check notifications on your phone. It’s different if they are spending hours mumsnetting or gaming.

”Those not taking a break currently are doing an 8-4pm straight. I will clarify this. They are able to come in at 7.30am if they wish to leave at 4pm.”

So what are their contractual hours? Are you currently allowing them to come in late and not take a break or leave early?

Contracted hours are 8/day, excl of breaks. We don’t have set start and finish times.

So, if someone wants to finish at 4pm (say) they need to come in at 7.30am with a 30mins break. Or have a 60min break and stay until 4.30. I am only going to insist on the min 30min break.

Re notifications. Sometimes they are flashing away. That’s pretty distracting imo and if you spend 30mins across to day replying to messages, that has quite an impact.

I’ve read it takes 15mins to return to concentration after a distraction.

Sorry, I misunderstood. It’s 8 hours excluding breaks.

I think you need to chat with everyone individually about their work hours. It’s fine to be flexible but you need to know who is coming in when. You also need to clarify with them about making sure they take a 30-min break.

I’m not sure the problem with the phone. If people are just checking messages and quickly texting back. I think that’s ok. If it’s excessive, then a quiet word would be appropriate.

Crossed posts with you.

@OrangeSunset sorry it's not reasonable to ask them not to look at notifications on their personal phones. It's old school and patronising. What's the issue if there's no impact on productivity and it's not disturbing others if it's on silent? If I started a new role and these were the rules this would put me off very quickly. I'm also a hr manager and would be having the same conversation with any of our managers if they tried to implement this. I guess I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve other than control for the sake of control?

The policy in relation to phones is muddled.

I don't understand why the people with work phones need to be allowed to use them for personal activity 'as a benefit' - especially since not everyone has a work phone.

Make the work phones for work use only and then you can have a clear policy on personal phones that applies across the board. If people are having to use their personal phones for work stuff, issue them with a work phone to eliminate any grey areas.

I would not be impressed to be told I couldn't look at my phone during working hours. I'm an adult, I can be trusted to leave it on silent and look at it when appropriate - ie not during a meeting or client call etc.

I work hard and to a high standard - I don't see why it would matter in the slightest if I exchanged a few WhatsApp messages while I did that. Am I not allowed to talk to colleagues about non work matters either?

Besides. If you banned phones/WhatsApp whatever, I'd just use my email or read the messages on my Fitbit. So it's impossible to police meaningfully anyway.

Just say that phones should be on silent and that limited personal use is permitted and should be reasonable.

When at work, I work, I am not paid to look at my phone.

OP, I think you really have to pick your battles here.

On the breaks issue, make sure you are meeting the legislative requirements, and then approach with individuals who you are genuinely concerned about. Someone who’s racing to start work at 8am so they can race to collect kids from crèche at 4pm isn’t going to quietly sit back while you demand they’re on at 7.30am for a seemingly arbitrary reason (ie, you don’t like it). Absolutely, if there are issues with team output, address them but once an opportunity for a break is made available to everyone and they know this, you might quickly learn that the goodwill flexibility brings isn’t worth starting a war over.

If you’re in a unionised environment and this is escalated as a change to custom and practice, you’ll see that this quick becomes a bigger and more time-consuming issue.

I’d you're worried about an individual, talk to them. Make sure they know there’s a provision for them to take breaks, and strongly encourage them to do so.
If you’re worried that there’s an inequity across the work day, address this by finding out if this is actually a problem for people, and not just your assumption. If it is a problem, look at solutions- ie minimum of 10 people have to be there until 5pm. and rota can be created, if required.

On the phone thing, I actually think you’re being very ageist throughout several of your posts and your team will pick up on this.

One of the greatest myths in management is that we should treat people how we would like to be treated. No, we should try to treat people how THEY would like to be treated.

As a manager, you need to figure this out and operate in a manner that allows adaptability. Yes, there are people who like to be treated in a way that allows them to take the piss but you need to manage these individuals, not introduce punitive measures for an entire team.

At the end of the day, output is a basic measure. You have KPIs and that’s “what” you do as a manager, but the “how” is just as important of you want to see beyond minor personal annoyances and focus on talent retention, wellbeing, and performance.

Clarify the need for breaks, fine, but address the phone thing with individuals who appear to be taking the piss rather than having a blanket policy. Like others have said, employers trying to police the use of phones is paternalistic, patronising, and suggests you don't trust your staff.

Could you give a 20 minute paid break (statutory minimum) and then there wouldn't be a need to change start/end times? Can you put in a rota so that you have sufficient people at start and end if shift? What time is the business open from/to?

So glad I started this thread as the range of responses and opinions quite nearly sums up my dilemma.

With breaks, it comes from two places. Genuinely, I think in this day and age we know enough about mental health and wellbeing to know that sitting in front of a computer for 8 hours straight is not the best for the individual, especially as we come in to winter, not getting out in the day light etc. That is my first point. Secondly, we have 'slipped' in to a practise where, those who get in early and don't take a break are out the door at 4pm on the dot. That leaves those who start later and/or have had a break to tidy up the remains of the day and deal with any tasks that require completion, often staying later to do so. In which case they are clearly encouraged to take the time another day i.e. come in later. Sometimes they chose to do so, sometimes they don't.

I can see though that I need to speak with those who I feel 'clock watch' from 3pm and have an aura of 'you can't give me anything now, I finish at 4pm'.

Reflecting on all of this, I think I have a couple of individuals who have a bit of an attitude about the whole thing - phones and breaks. They are the ones who need tackling, and they will also be the most vocal about it even if done 1:1.

Phones - this is quite divisive, isn't it. Just because we can see WhatsApp threads in the day doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. And I wonder (but am not sure) if it annoys those who don't have their phones out. There are plenty of work places I know of where personal phones are not accessible during the work day. Teaching for one, many others. It isn't a right to be able to catch up on your mate's chat during the work day, surely that is a break activity?

I agree our policy is muddled. The formal policy says personal phones can only be used at breaks. This is completely confused by the fact that we issue handsets which people can use personally.

I think your no whatsapping during working hours is out of date with the modern workplace. I find it stress relieving and a little mini break to have a quick peek at my phone. Then I get back on with my job. I wouldn't want to work in a place like yours so you may find people leave. I don't take the piss and I get my work done well. Also, as a parent it can be reassuring to know how contactable I am or to see a quick message to pop up that says "she's fine, temp now down to normal" or whatever.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to say personal phone use whilst at desk should be minimal, but to ban it would probably go down like a lead balloon.

Anyone who thinks looking a phone notifications through the day doesn’t affect productivity is utterly deluded.

Cross post! I'm a teacher, and have my phone out in the office. Don't take it into the classroom of course. Same for meetings with colleagues or parents.

The trust thing is interesting, it's been mentioned a few times.

This is a bit of an exaggeration for illustration, but here goes...
There are some people I trust totally. There are others who I don't trust as much. Those I trust are getting more opportunities, which those I trust less are not. I can trust the first group to do a good job, to come to me if they have a problem etc. Those I don't trust as much do their baseline job, but if given an opportunity, I perceive they may not do the work on time, or may leave before it's finished etc. I think the second group are noticing that the first group are getting more opportunities by being, well, better.

So how do I approach the (lack of) trust with the second set so that we can overcome it together? I agree that they may also not trust me. This may be another thread entirely.

I am now realising why I have worked for so few really good people managers. It's pretty challenging trying to support and understand such a range of people, when you have a large element of delivery of your own to do as well.

I am prepared to be told I'm doing a terrible job, by the way, and am happy and willing to learn more effective ways of going about this.