Was colleague racist?

[ronky30]

I’ll try to keep this brief.

Last week, during a conversation about strange things that people eat around the world, Colleague A said “They say that in China if it has four legs but is not a table, or if it flies but is not an aeroplane, then it can be eaten”. Colleague B (who has Chinese heritage) angrily asked Colleague A what he had said and told him that he was racist. Colleague A responded saying that he wasn’t being racist and was merely repeating a well known saying, and asked if she had never heard it. Colleague B said that you shouldn’t believe everything you read. Nothing more was said at the time, but today, after a couple of days out of the office, Colleague A returned to work and was told that Colleague B had made a complaint that he was making racist comments, and he was being asked to attend a disciplinary hearing with HR next week.

So as not to drip feed, Colleague A was in trouble earlier this year when a different colleague made a complaint about him being “inappropriate” in the office (Colleague A had sworn at her). The complaint was dealt with and Colleague A was being monitored by his manager to ensure that he behaved appropriately and professionally in the office.

AIBU to feel that calling Colleague A to a disciplinary hearing is a bit much? I think that it would have been more appropriate to speak to him to explain why Colleague B would be offended and to suggest that he apologise. There was no malice intended by the comment and he is not racist. I suspect that the disciplinary hearing is more around “appropriate behaviour” in the office, rather than specifically about racism.

So my questions are:

1 – what would you consider to be the most appropriate course of action if a colleague said something similar in your office? Would disciplinary action be taken?
2 – if not, is it fair that this is being used against him as an example of “inappropriate behaviour” when other colleagues might not be disciplined for saying a similar thing?

Funny enough it’s now the time of the year of the Yulin dog festival,where they kill dogs and cats using disgusting methods.

Well he’s got form
So a disciplinary seems fair enough
Keep in mind there might be other complaints you’ve not heard about

So I think colleague A is racist and should have more sense. Honestly, they should know better and if they don’t they need to learn.

There are lots of sayings which are racist. It isn't appropriate to repeat them at work (or any other time).

1 - I think the most appropriate course of action would be to raise a grievance. If it did happen in my office, I would hope/expect disciplinary action to be taken

2 - The problem there is not action taken against him, it is action not taken against others

There was no malice intended by the comment and he is not racist - that doesn't make it ok. Being ignorant doesn't make it ok

Where do you work that is full of people making comments like this, the seventies?!

I think this is actually a saying in China. In some parts at least I know people make jokes about the fact that they will eat anything. It’s a big country and attitudes obviously vary widely.

Colleague B is a snowflake.

He’s perpetuating a stereotype by repeating this ‘saying’ and marginalising colleague B by doing so. intentional or not it’s pretty common sense not to repeat stereotypical bullshit in front of people who quite rightly could take offence to it or at all for that matter because it normalises this type of bollocks.

I know that being ignorant doesn't make it OK, but it makes it different from a hateful racist comment with malicious intent. That's why I wondered whether it would be more appropriate to educate rather than discipline.

If if I was in a room with people of different ethnic origins I don’t think I would take it on myself to make generalisations or even general comments about their culture. It’s just sounds like looking for trouble .
This sounds like something he needs to learn.

I completely agree it's something he needs to learn. My question is more around the action that's being taken against him. Would most employers take disciplinary action?

I don't think it was a racist comment. What your colleague said was a variation on a Chinese joke/saying which translates roughly as "anything that walks, swims, crawls, or flies with its back to heaven is edible" but there are many variations on this. It's mainly aimed at the Cantonese who are well known for eating pretty much everything and anything. I used to work in China and plenty of local (Cantonese speaking) colleagues told me this saying as they found it amusing (and true!) so they obviously weren't offended by it!

It sounds like your colleague A should have erred on the side of caution (since B sounds over-sensitive) but it does sound like A's comment was in keeping with the discussion topic (what people eat around the world). Unfortunately some people do seem a little keen to play the racism card.

Can't comment on the swearing without knowing the circumstances. Swearing at someone at work isn't very professional but it happens, especially when people are stressed and/or provoked. None of us are robots.

A disciplinary for these two incidents sounds way OTT. Are they just looking for excuses to get rid of A?

I'm with Hundredmilesanhour & Boronation street on this one.

It's called humour. Try it.....you might find you like it.

It's not as if Colleague A said it about Colleague B. Jeez, some people need to lighten up.

It does appear to be a Chinese saying about cantonese food. A couple of chinese sources here:

www.chinadaily.com.cn/life/2011-01/05/content_11798716.htm

zolimacitymag.com/all-you-need-to-know-on-cantonese-food-in-hong-kong/

While it's a tactless thing to say, I think the employer is on somewhat difficult ground if they sack him or issue a warning for repeating a Chinese saying.

Of course the smart thing would be for A to have apologised quickly and learn to think before they speak.

I'm in a similar situation, except I'm colleague C, who heard the conversation and reported it.

HR are taking it seriously and our policy says that we should report such behaviour even if its not directed towards us.

But I am worried that colleagues A and B will be unhappy with me.

Colleague A is my manager, Colleague B is a young trainee who came to the UK as a refugee about 5 years ago or so.

The comment was along the lines of the trainee should go home.

It was said in a 'jokey' tone so the argument might be that it was just a joke, no malice etc.

Colleague A is a bully and I mentioned this comment as part of an overall bullying complaint.

But in relation to this thread, I do understand how hard it can be to determine if someone is really racist or not, and whether its the right thing to report it.

Is colleague A in your situation, yourself or your DP?

"The comment was along the lines of the trainee should go home."

wow. that's spectacularly malicious.

Hi FF

I think you were absolutely right to report that comment. Even if it was said in a "jokey" tone, it's an outrageous comment that couldn't be perceived as anything other than racist.

Colleague A's comment was said in the context of a conversation about strange things that people eat around the world. It's a saying that is used in China, and if you were to google "what to eat in China", then it is stated on lots of tourist guides. I think it's completely different.

Colleague A is my DP.

Said as a stand alone comment I’d find extremely insensitive, ignorant and offensive. Especially the fact they repeated and defended themselves.

With the track record, I’d go utterly unacceptable and I think I disciplinary is fitting.

OP

you feel you can be confident your DP is not racist because he's your DP and you know him very well.

when you have racism directed at you, it's very hard to know what's an innocent comment, most so called innocent comments are leading up to something worse, or as brave as people get in terms of being racist.

no one can ever know what they are dealing with.

Given Colleague A - your DP - has sworn at someone, he's probably already on a countdown, as I said. He's got form for behaving badly with colleagues. Also, when Colleague B raised concerns about what was said, it sounds like he didn't back down.

he can defend himself at disciplinary. I doubt anything will happen to him anyway. but the information that he is your DP doesn't change anything, I'm of the same view as I was when I first answered.

Colleague A’s intention is irrelevant, the comment could be construed as harassment so yes, HR need to deal with it formally. A lot of racist sexist homophobic etc comments have been written off as “just banter” and “I didn’t mean to cause offence”. However we live in a time where diversity and inclusion are vital issues for businesses and they see the risk in not tackling poor behaviour around them so your DH should be fully expecting this to be treated as a very serious matter. I work in HR and have had to discipline and dismiss employees who blamed colleagues for not being able to take a “joke” rather than acknowledging that they should not have said the offensive comment.

If if I was in a room with people of different ethnic origins I don’t think I would take it on myself to make generalisations or even general comments about their culture. It’s just sounds like looking for trouble.

This. I think my jaw would physically drop if I heard someone make that comment in the workplace, especially if someone of Chinese origin was in the room. I'm not surprised he's finding himself in a disciplinary, especially with a history of inappropriate behaviour. It's just not professional.

I'm Irish and would see a huge difference between an Irish person making a joke about liking a drink, and someone else joking that Irish people are drunks. Iyswim.

Really Mindy? I'm Irish and hear comments all the time and it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I do get that it's about the perception of the person complaining, rather than the intention of the person who made the comment. But I think that people have a choice as to whether or not they take offence, and should take into consideration the intent when making that choice.

I feel like this is actually detrimental to tackling issues of diversity and racism. We should be able to talk about and celebrate the interesting things about other countries' cultures, without fear of being accused of being racist. Pointing out differences isn't always a negative thing.

I'm not saying that nothing should have been said to Colleague A - I think someone could have explained why it would be offensive to some people and to suggest he apologise, not pull him in for a disciplinary and tell him he's racist.

DH has been to China on business. He has eaten duck's tongue, bull tail soup, drank snake beer (or was it wine?) and seen other people eating monkey brains.

He loves to talk about his visit, how much he enjoyed it, and the different food on offer. He has said some food was surprisingly nice and others were not so nice, and that some food choices shocked him.

But he would never say what your DP said - which is a rather sneery assumption that chinese people will eat anything - and said to someone of chinese heritage too.

It comes across like he thinks we are better than them?

It was ignorant at best. Maybe your DP needs to reflect on why he's been sufficiently offensive on two occasions to warrant a complaint being made against him?

It was ignorant and offensive.

He might have got away with the "It was just banter, I didn't mean to be nasty, can't you take a joke?!" defence if it was the first time he had behaved inappropriately at work, but it wasn't, he has form.

I understand the wish to defend your DP but I really think you need to try and think how you would feel if it was someone you didn't know.