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New boss is autistic. Help

73 replies

IceQueenCometh · 19/06/2019 10:29

So I have been in my current company for 5 years. I have always done well, have had good appraisals etc. Now I have a new boss. He's well known to be autistic. I can't work out how to communicate with him. He won't let me speak, talks over me, talks down to me. Can anyone recommend a resource to help me learn more about how I can get the best out of this new situation?

OP posts:
joystir59 · 20/06/2019 13:16

It is perfectly fine not to accept shoddy treatment from anyone, autistic or not.

IceQueenCometh · 20/06/2019 13:50

He just cancelled my 121. 15 minutes before it was due to start. Great.

OP posts:
IceQueenCometh · 20/06/2019 13:52

@joystir59 I agree. But if I want to keep my job I'm just going to have to accept it.

OP posts:
TheVanguardSix · 20/06/2019 17:07

IceQeen it is an absolute pleasure to offer some insight. I'm glad that I can be of some use! Smile
I can totally relate to your feelings of anxiety. I feel like I'm playing emotional Battleship most days. It's very easy when the ones I am working with are nice, lovely people. But the ones who are 'colder' and more prone to getting upset or distressed do press my anxiety buttons. Ironically, people on the spectrum suffer from extreme social anxiety, even though their approach can create anxiety in others. It's like an anxiety soup!

Cancelling your 121 was probably him not being able to cope with that meeting. Perhaps not, but I imagine this is the case. I'd put my money on it.
People on the spectrum are confusing because they can come across as abrupt and uncaring. Actually, they care a great deal. But it manifests itself differently.
Your boss will totally consume himself with worry about what people think about him. It will mostly tie him up in knots far more than anyone can imagine. But he will have learned to mask his anxiety and also, the veil of his ASD will make him seem more removed from his emotions and unable to simply just crack on with things and try to get along with everyone. It's not that he is unwilling to try and meet people half way. He can't. He is unable to, unless he himself has developed strategies over the years to do so.

Stress will make your boss shut down. In an autistic person, this can show itself in so many ways: tantrums, stimming (rocking back and forth/pacing up and down/drumming fingers/humming), but for an adult who has learned coping machansims to mask anxiety and stress, shutdowns can be i.e. abrupt cancellations of 121 meetings!

People on the spectrum don't like questions. It doesn't mean you can't ask questions, but again, less is more. Try to keep your questions closed-ended, so that he can answer them simply, concisely, and earnestly.

I have a funny little story. I gave one of my year 6 pupils a Christmas card, which he declined by saying, "No thanks, Miss. I already have too many. I don't need any more."
That's just so spectrummy. Grin He wasn't ungrateful in the least. His cup was simply full.
A neurotypical person would smile politely, take the card, say thank you, and move on (it could even end up in the recycling bin on its way home).
I quite like the directness of people on the spectrum. They are rarely malicious or manipulative. This is something I appreciate greatly. They tend not to double cross.

Yet it can be very stressful for you, for example, because you will always be approaching your boss from a different angle. And you'll have to develop strategies in order to communicate successfully with him. You have to come up from behind, tiptoeing.

I think two of my most useful stock phrases are: It's good to see you.
And also, It will be ok. We can make this ok.
Basically, reminding them that they are good people (their moral compass tends to run really high) and constant calming reassurances keeps stress levels on low.

What you don't need to do is bend your brain and wreck your health trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. So try your best and remember, your job description never said "compromise your happiness and sense of well-being to accommodate a terrible boss."

Look after number 1, OP! That's top priority here!

IceQueenCometh · 20/06/2019 17:28

Gosh @TheVanguardSix, I so appreciate you taking the time to share this with me, it's so appreciated. A lot of what I have seen him do makes a bit more sense now. And it really helps to know that it's not me, it's him - I had reached the conclusion that he doesn't rate me and was about to fire me.

So my 121 is tomorrow now. I want to ask him for some feedback since I've been working in his team for 3 months now. Would it help him if I sent him my questions in advance? They are quite straightforward - what's gone well / where could I improve / is there anyone I should be working more closely with. Standard stuff but since he avoids 121s like the plague (I hear), he probably has little experience of answering them

OP posts:
Fibbke · 20/06/2019 17:32

He's not German is he? Wink

Standstilling · 20/06/2019 17:39

I was wondering about his nationality too - Israeli?

IceQueenCometh · 20/06/2019 17:43

No, neither of those nationalities. Really the specifics of that doesn't make any difference except that his English isn't that fluent which just makes communication EVEN harder

OP posts:
LauraMipsum · 20/06/2019 18:09

I have ASD and I was a terrible supervisor when I was in an employed position - sadly the way that most employment works is that if you are good at the job you then get given people to manage. I am extremely good at what I do, and extremely poor at people management.

He may be very aware that he is not a good people manager, but have little idea of how to manage it.

It's not enough for the company to offer him help to communicate, they need to offer you help as well. The problem is that most resources are focused either on children or on adults who also have learning disabilities. There isn't much out there for those like your boss who hold down a job (and like me).

Can you ask HR to organise training for your company through the NAS? They offer it here: www.autism.org.uk/professionals/training-consultancy.aspx

Or get in touch with City Disabilities citydisabilities.org.uk

Autistic professionals have a lot of strengths (I have hyper focus, great attention to detail, huge loyalty to my organisation and colleagues, I'm an excellent problem solver) but if he haemorrhages staff all the time the company is losing an opportunity.

I agree with Vanguard that the 121 cancellation at the last moment sounds like a shutdown. I've done that before. A lot. Blush It's because I assume that the person I'm meant to be meeting is going to tell me I'm useless and the anxiety mounts and mounts.

Can I suggest

  • get straight to the point when you're talking. Cut the "I wonder whether" and "It occurred to me"

  • never ask for a meeting about an unspecified topic. Offices are terrible for "I need a word with you - Wednesday at 4?" leaving me assuming that Wednesday at 4 I will be at best sacked and at worst defenestrated

  • Signpost what you're saying. If he interrupts and goes off on a tangent, wait for a pause then say "I hear that. Now I'm going to talk about X."

  • Give him time to process what's being said. I am set to broadcast not receive at least partly because I struggle to process as quickly as other people, so it's easier just to keep talking.

mumwon · 20/06/2019 18:12

If someone has ASD they may have what I call train track thinking - single viewpoint & idea of how things are done, not be able to see how it affects others & their point of view. - this is a generalization but it can be true for some people within the spectrum
so short sentences
bullet points
be literal & factual & blunt but polite (difficult)
say " I cant do this because … not this is difficult"
don't use too many adjectives or adverbs!
& use emails prior to any conversation
if he miss reads/misinterprets/ignores a single item answer that single item/comment only with as brief/succinct answer
& state while I understand/appreciate/respect your role as manager this is not possible because...
(goes off to ring d/adult/offspring to persuade them to do something...they need to do (I feel your pain! :))

Fibbke · 20/06/2019 18:15

I only asked because my German uncle is like this and so are many Swedes and Germans that i know. Lovely people just...abrupt

mumwon · 20/06/2019 18:22

Laura brilliant! one thing I was told (by said offspring!) is that they were told some people within spectrum can have slow processing speed ie they may need extra time to consider alternative viewpoint or new idea - my offspring (!clunky expression!) has difficulty with lateral thinking but is as Laura states - good at working through a single project - is very patient & is the families IT expert :)! (it there fault I was trained to use internet) but dos (dear offspring!) gets stressed when they are given alternative views or choices & tends to freeze!

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 20/06/2019 18:22

A friend in a similar situation says her 121s are actually better meetings than normal because at her work they are very structured meetings - what's been going well, what can be improved upon, how can I help you do that, let's set objectives - everyone understands the format and sticks to it.

So I think your idea of sending some questions in advance is a good one, and use them to give you some structure for the meeting.

BlankTimes · 20/06/2019 19:34

You've had some great advice so far IceQueen

I wondered if it would help you to realise how much he struggles with communication? The criteria for an autism diagnosis is [source NAS] www.autism.org.uk/about/diagnosis/criteria-changes.aspx “persistent difficulties with social communication and social interaction” and “restricted and repetitive patterns of behaviours, activities or interests” (this includes sensory behaviour), present since early childhood, to the extent that these “limit and impair everyday functioning”.

Please don't think any of his day-to-day work interactions with people are easy for him, many people assume that because an autistic person can work, that they are "not very autistic" whereas in fact nothing could be further from the truth. This may help explain a lot better than I can. the-art-of-autism.com/understanding-the-spectrum-a-comic-strip-explanation/

I'd just like to say a big thank-you for asking how you can communicate with him and trying to understand the work situation from his point of view. Flowers

IceQueenCometh · 21/06/2019 10:32

Thanks so much to all of you. I have lots to think about thanks to your kind responses and I will follow up on the links you have suggested.

My 121 has been re-arranged for lunchtime my time, he will call me from his car while he's driving to his office (in a different time zone). Not ideal. So I sent him a brief email yesterday to tell him that I wanted to use the time to discuss three things and gave him a bulleted list of very short descriptions of the items. If he read it he hasn't responded. Fingers crossed.

OP posts:
BlankTimes · 21/06/2019 14:17

Hope it went okay!

IceQueenCometh · 21/06/2019 14:46

@BlankTimes thank you. Well, I started off by saying that I was pleased to have the chance to speak to him. He thanked me for sending the questions and then talked at me for mostly an hour. I managed to stop him about three times using the "Difficulttotalktoboss, I'd like to say something relating to that, if I may" and he duly stopped and let me get about a sentence and a half in.

He answered my questions and then really just rambled on about two or three pet topics, but I got out of it what I needed so all good. He said that he thinks it would be a good idea to chat more regularly and that his drive time was a good opportunity for that, but to call him "anytime". At the end I thanked him and said I had enjoyed speaking to him.

So, thanks to you all because that went a lot better than it would have done before I'd had your advice. I have some good building blocks now!

OP posts:
ContessaIsOnADietDammit · 21/06/2019 14:52

Excellent news! That will have buoyed you both up, I think; if a conversation went well with someone last time you're more relaxed for the next one. Just don't remember it as overly rosy (i.e. enough so you're disappointed at the next one!) and you'll be grand Grin

Branleuse · 21/06/2019 14:59

stop caring, and also do everything via email. Tell him that you would prefer to communicate by email because then you can both get your points across clearly without interruption, which is vital if you are to work together. He clearly doesnt value social niceties, but you are important and he shouldnt be rude to his employees or colleagues

BlankTimes · 21/06/2019 15:31

Brilliant, the being talked at when it's hard to get a word in, is called Monologuing and is another autistic trait.

I think you handled that very well and hope things go more smoothly from now on, if not, we're here Smile

IceQueenCometh · 21/06/2019 15:38

@Branleuse he specifically requested that I call him a couple of times a week. I am remote geographically, and he said that he feels it's important that we speak as well as email. He likes email too. I think my best approach is to email him at the end of my working day here, so he has a few hours to read it, then call him at his preferred time which is while he's driving to the office his next day, which is my lunchtime. That way I get what I want (a clear expression of my thoughts on email) And he gets what he wants (an opportunity to monologue). Win win, hopefully.

I do care, i want to have the best relationship I can with my boss. If I have any chance of enjoying my job and progressing my career, it's essential that he is a supporter and feels that I am a supporter of him.

OP posts:
Branleuse · 21/06/2019 15:50

I think youve got a good approach. It doesnt sound like youre going to change him, although even as another autistic person, id find his style impossible to work with. Can you speak to someone senior to him?

IceQueenCometh · 21/06/2019 16:50

@Branleuse thank you. No not really possible to speak to his boss, he's super super senior, I've only ever met him once and he's in another country too

OP posts:
lljkk · 21/06/2019 19:57

it's weird... I've worked with a lot of people who say they are 'on the spectrum' & none are like OP describes. They all seem to have a huge amount more self-awareness than OP describes. Could be long winded & details focused, but desperately want to engage & have comms be 2 way.

Anyway, I think I'd resort to being a lot more direct than OP has been. Reading this
he duly stopped and let me get about a sentence and a half in.

made me want to recommend saying to him
"Do you realise that you don't let me say hardly anything?"
&
"I feel like you don't want to hear anything I have to say."
&
"Did you want any feedback from me?"

Say those types of things as fact & without emotion.

HavelockVetinari · 21/06/2019 20:03

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00359KYEU/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1&tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Maybe read this? I've not read it, but have worked with the person who wrote it who is very difficult at times but also brilliant.