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Original poster

Can they not pay me at all for the next 4 weeks?

61 replies

Spaceunicorn6789 · 18/02/2019 20:00

Name changed but regular lurker and occasional poster.

Long story short, my company paid for some training which I am due to complete in September. I signed an agreement confirming that I would pay back these costs if I left before completion or within a year of.

Today I handed in my notice and stated I fully accept that I owe this money and happy to come to a mutual agreement to pay this off as soon as possible.

They have come back and said that they will claim the money back by making me work my notice period, but not paying me for the whole of February or the 3 weeks of March up until my official termination date.

Can they do this?????!!!! I will have no way to pay my bills and this will put me into significant financial difficulty although we will manage to scrape by with savings and DP paying more than his share.

I can't see how this can be reasonable.

To reiterate, I'm not denying I need to pay it back but this way seems so unfair.

OP posts:

Minniemagoo · 18/02/2019 20:04

It depends on your agreement letter. Usually you have to pay back monies owed for courses before you leave (or at least in my last 3 companies).
You can do this 2 days, the way they suggest or tell them you will pay them on the day you leave. For my last job it was best to do it the second way as the amount due was prorated to departure day.
I do get from your post though you thought there may be a grace period or a payment plan after you depart but I haven't come accross this.

Minniemagoo · 18/02/2019 20:05

2 ways, not 2 days!

burnoutbabe · 18/02/2019 20:06

Well they will be paying you correctly but also deducting the amount owed. Very hard to get money back from an employee who had left.

SoyDora · 18/02/2019 20:07

How were you hoping to pay it back?
I left a company before completing a qualification they had paid for. I had to pay it back in full (approx £3k) before my final day working for them.

SoyDora · 18/02/2019 20:08

I would be surprised if they would allow you to pay after leaving, as it would be difficult for them to enforce.

ThroughThickAndThin01 · 18/02/2019 20:09

You are probably only wanting to here from people with expertise, but how on earth can you imagine they’ll let you go owing them a huge chunk of money??

I’d say you are being ridiculously naive and haven’t thought it through at all.

HeadsDownThumbsUpEveryone · 18/02/2019 20:12

The trouble is surely you can see how difficult it would be to get the money back from someone who has left. Whilst you still work for them they are able to recoup the cost, once you leave it would be so much harder.

I can see why you think it is unfair but I think its the easiest way for them to ensure they get the money back.

Gina2012 · 18/02/2019 20:14

I can't see how this can be reasonable.

I get the feeling that you were anticipating a nice little. Monthly payment arrangement way into the future

With respect that's nuts. It isn't going to happen

babysharkah · 18/02/2019 20:18

They are totally entitled to do this you don't come to a monthly agreement to pay something back that you have benefited from at cost to the business, they weren't doing you a favour by paying for it.

Sunshineboo · 18/02/2019 20:19

So I would talk to them about this - put something forward that is sensible eg direct debit of £150 per month type thing.

If they refuse - I would check wording of agreement carefully. If it doesn't say can be deducted from wages it MAY be unlawful for them to do so, I would call acas.

When I worked in hr we had a similar case we agreed a payment plan. We had a clear documentation and proposed a schedule of payments which cleared the debt in one year.

She told us she was in financial hardship and the ex employee refused to pay more than £5 per month. Reluctantly this was approved and the. she kept missing her payment. We sold the debt to a debt collection company who pursued her through court. I am not sure if the outcome but suspect it was more stressful than paying. If she had kept to the plan it all could be avoided
If they won't consider this, I would check how much sick pay you entitled to. If it covers you to the end of employment , go to gp, tell them what happened and likely to sign you off.

Hebebo · 18/02/2019 20:23

@Sunshineboo are you are suggesting OP fakes an illness to call in sick? If so that's disgraceful.
OP speak to them. Can you pay half now/before you leave then do monthly payments after that?
They sounds like they previously treated you well by investing in you helping you do a course. This shouldn't be taken for granted.
I assume you want to leave on good terms and get a good reference?

HermioneWeasley · 18/02/2019 20:25

How did you think it would work? It’s completely normal to deduct from final salary. You should have negotiated with new employer

Sunshineboo · 18/02/2019 20:30

Hebo. - Disgraceful but not as disgraceful as threatening to take someone's pay unless it was absolutely explicit in the training contract that she signed .

I have always expected honesty and trust from employees, but treat them with the same dignity.

In the absence of having a clear statement in the document that the employee signs in advance of taking on the training, stating clearly that the costs associated with the training will be withheld from salary Before leaving, suggesting that they would do so I believe could constitute Unlawful withholding of pay.

Furthermore, I would imagine that anybody faced with the prospect of not being able to afford their Bills as they are receiving no pay for their final month and half work Would be stressful. I suspect if they told the GP of the pressure and stress that they are under that they would suggest that they get signed off. To be honest, I would suggest that even if they don't get sick pay as the relationship between the employee and the previous employer has pretty much broken down at this point anyway.

I do however think it is important that she pays the money back. If a payment plan is agreed that it should be stuck to. A case in point proves that such debt can be pursued through the courts. Unless settlement was reached this could've ended up with a CCJ

ThroughThickAndThin01 · 18/02/2019 20:32

Hope you don’t work in HR anymore Sunshine

topcat2014 · 18/02/2019 20:37

If there is a signed agreement then all my employers would deduct in this fashion.

OddBoots · 18/02/2019 20:42

You will have to check the exact wording of the agreement but if they have had you sign an agreement then the chances are they have that covered.

When you say "happy to come to a mutual agreement to pay this off as soon as possible" what kind of terms were you thinking?

Could you get a loan for the owed amount so you could pay the loan off instead giving you more time?

TFBundy · 18/02/2019 20:43

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

W0rriedMum · 18/02/2019 20:46

I think this is standard. I've never heard of a company settle up debts after you leave - they won't even know where you live after a while. I've seen this apply for train season tickets, bike purchase schemes, even excess holidays taken.
I am surprised the OP didn't envisage this.

Shenanagins · 18/02/2019 20:56

This is pretty standard practice and I would be surprised if the contact the op signed wasn’t watertight on this aspect.

punishmepunisher · 18/02/2019 21:06

Contracts usually state that any training fees owing will be deducted from unpaid salary. Have you checked the contract or company policy on training?

Original poster

Spaceunicorn6789 · 18/02/2019 21:06

Okay, so instead of me agreeing to pay in back 1/3 out of this month's salary, 1/3 out of next month and then the remaining the month after I'd left, with a full and comprehensive handover, finish all current projects etc... What's to stop me from just not going back tomorrow?

Plus no exploration of why are you leaving (bullying culture, grievances not resolved, getting shouted at by management for things outwith my control etc). And seeing how they could resolve it etc. The reasons are not relevant which is why I didn't put it in the OP because I accept I owe the money but what's the motivation to go back?

It's a small company so highly unlikely to sue for breach of contract.

OP posts:

ememem84 · 18/02/2019 21:06

Are you moving to a similar job in the same industry where the training wouldn’t be beneficial to them too?

I’ve done this previously and new employer has repaid old employer the costs.

SoyDora · 18/02/2019 21:10

The reasons for leaving are irrelevant. What is in your written contract with regards to paying back the money is relevant.

Original poster

Spaceunicorn6789 · 18/02/2019 21:11

Similar job but different industry, I did consider asking my employer to take on the costs but don't want to jepordise the offer, it's an amazing opportunity

OP posts:

Original poster

Spaceunicorn6789 · 18/02/2019 21:13

I don't have the exact wording to hand, nothing in my contact of employment but a separate agreement which states something along the lines off...

Costs will be due back to the company if the employee leaves before completion of the course, fails the course, or leaves within one year of completion.

No mention of HOW the costs will be recouped.

OP posts:

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