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Original poster

Can they not pay me at all for the next 4 weeks?

61 replies

Spaceunicorn6789 · 18/02/2019 20:00

Name changed but regular lurker and occasional poster.

Long story short, my company paid for some training which I am due to complete in September. I signed an agreement confirming that I would pay back these costs if I left before completion or within a year of.

Today I handed in my notice and stated I fully accept that I owe this money and happy to come to a mutual agreement to pay this off as soon as possible.

They have come back and said that they will claim the money back by making me work my notice period, but not paying me for the whole of February or the 3 weeks of March up until my official termination date.

Can they do this?????!!!! I will have no way to pay my bills and this will put me into significant financial difficulty although we will manage to scrape by with savings and DP paying more than his share.

I can't see how this can be reasonable.

To reiterate, I'm not denying I need to pay it back but this way seems so unfair.

OP posts:
NorthEndGal · 18/02/2019 21:14

As far as I knew, you had to pay back training costs before the last working dau

Namechangeforthiscancershit · 18/02/2019 21:18

I’ve only ever seen people have to pay back before their last day. It’s way too much of a credit risk otherwise.

Our payroll people did advise to spread deductions across the notice period so that people don’t get zero for the last month so that they don’t just stop going in, but if your notice period is only a month then that won’t apply I guess.

I wouldn’t assume that a small business won’t sue for breach of contract.

HollyBollyBooBoo · 18/02/2019 21:18

I'm a bit confused as to how and when you planned to pay them back.

If you don't rock up for work during your notice period then they can sue for damages (whether they could actually be bothered or not is of course completely different!)

LaurieFairyCake · 18/02/2019 22:44

Well the bottom line is you can't support yourself without money coming in

So you're going to have to leave and take ANY job to get some cash coming in

TortoiseLettuce · 18/02/2019 22:56

I don’t think they can do that. It violates minimum wage laws. Not to mention that the amount you owe would have to be paid out of your after-tax salary, not out of your pre-tax salary. By not paying you they’re effectively robbing HMRC of the tax you’d have paid on your salary during Feb and March.

Ask for a copy of the contract terms and conditions that were attached to your training. Presumably there’s something in there about how and when you have to pay them back? (if not, they’re idiots because they have nothing they can legally hold you to). And report them to HMRC.

GemmeFatale · 18/02/2019 23:10

What’s stopping you just not going in? Well nothing but if it’s effectively 2 months wages, I imagine it’s a sum low enough that they’ll just use the small claims court process. I believe they can also add those costs and interest to your debt.

Namechangeforthiscancershit · 19/02/2019 00:59

Tortoise I don’t see anything to suggest that PAYE wouldn’t be paid?

MaverickSnoopy · 19/02/2019 01:52

Can you post the exact wording about paying back training costs. It might make a difference.

On the face of it yes they can deduct this much from your final pay:

beta.acas.org.uk/final-pay-when-someone-leaves-a-job/deductions-for-training-courses

Don't forget you will be paid any outstanding annual leave and you may get a tax rebate as you won't have been paid your usual salary. May not be much though.

Assuming the wording of the agreement isn't in question your best course of action would be to write to them and explain financial hardship and offer a payment plan, clearly setting out a reasonable offer. The worst they can do is say no. Make sure it's a reasonable offer though so if you owe £2k then £500/month might be considered reasonable. State that you would be happy to enter into a contract to this end. Make sure everything is in writing.

Failing this I wonder what would happen if you cancelled the course. If for example the course was not completed.

Frankly this is why people don't leave jobs before they are in the clear after training has been completed.

Justagirlwholovesaboy · 19/02/2019 01:58

This is normal, why would a companh pay to train you for you to leave shortly afterwards. As for why you wouldn’t just refuse to return I would expect your reference won’t be great plus why would you want to leave on such a negative? They paid to train you, you are working now to pay off a debt to them

MrMeSeeks · 19/02/2019 02:07

Hebo. - Disgraceful but not as disgraceful as threatening to take someone's pay unless it was absolutely explicit in the training contract that she signed

Yes because wasting a gps time,faking illnesses and claiming wrongful money is certainly less worse isn't it?Hmm

Every job i’ve been in, whatever owed is taken from last wage , if it means i don’t receive anything then so be it.
If i owe anything it’s due before i leave.

flowery · 19/02/2019 04:08

”By not paying you they’re effectively robbing HMRC of the tax you’d have paid on your salary during Feb and March.”

Eh? By not paying the OP they are recouping money owed. To “rob” HMRC they’d have to not pay HMRC the tax/NI element of her wages. No reason to think they’d do that.

Perfectly normal and acceptable to deduct money owed from final salary. You can ask for a payment plan but they don’t have to agree. Doing so gives them a headache.

If you just don’t show up for work you’ll obviously still owe the money and if you do that I would expect them to vigorously pursue it.

ememem84 · 19/02/2019 06:37

Op in your situation I’d either ask about a payment plan or would ask new employer to repay the costs so the debt effectively gets transferred to them and you’d more than Likely have to repay them if you left within a set period of time.

That’s the norm here.

I have known people not get much pay as a final salary because they owed training costs and had taken all their holiday etc.

Do you have any annual leave accrued they are paying you for or have you used up your allocation?

FiveTwoFaster · 19/02/2019 06:50

As you say you can scrape by with savings and partner, I would do that and replace your savings and repay your partner in your own time instead of the company. You will then close the door on the company you don’t like and also can be sure the reference will be fine.

YequeTuZainti · 19/02/2019 07:04

You do owe this debt and it's reasonable for them to recoup it before you leave.

A previous employer of mine had someone in this situation, a colleague who left after only 9 months in-post, the first 3 months of which was an expensive training course. The employers had mercy and agreed a payment plan. The ex-employee went off-radar and never paid back another penny after leaving employment.

Given that you acknowledge the debt and we're planning to pay it off in a few months anyway, you can achieve the same net effect by borrowing funds equivalent to the deducted salary then pay back that debt more gradually. Easiest way to achieve that is by getting a credit card with an introductory 0% deal on purchases, and put all the spending you can on that until you've borrowed the right amount.

Chewbecca · 19/02/2019 08:21

It's normal to make an adjustment to your final pay for anything owed by either party, holidays, recouping costs etc.

If you want to pay some this month, just put the money aside yourself to cover the shortfall next month.

It's not reasonable to expect it to be repaid after you have left.

What's motivating you to continue to work & wrap up your work is firstly that you are contracted to do so but also your professional reputation, your reference, your relationship with your colleagues (who may pop up again later in your career) and more if you want to be considered as a 'good' leaver.

AnchorDownDeepBreath · 19/02/2019 08:58

What's to stop me from just not going back tomorrow?

You'd potentially owe them more if you did that and they may well update any reference provided to your new company.

You need the exact wording from your agreement, and probably a meeting with someone from HR to discuss what would be considered reasonable from both sides. If you were happy to pay 1/3 now and 1/3 next month, so there was only 1/3 owing when you left, can you borrow that 1/3 from your partner or put it on a credit card? Obviously only if it's a decent APR and you can pay it back.

Janecon · 19/02/2019 09:07

In answer to your 'What's to stop me....'question. Behaving professionally, that's what stops you.

4strings · 19/02/2019 09:19

I’ve been in this situation and would have been in a position where I’d have no income for two months. I was a low earner at the time and lived alone. I agreed to leave a load of post dated cheques for amounts I could afford to spread the payment over 6 months. Would that work?

YequeTuZainti · 19/02/2019 20:31

leave a load of post dated cheques for amounts I could afford to spread the payment over 6 months

That would require a huge amount of trust, as cheques can easily be cancelled. Not many employers would agree to such a plan.

Namechangeforthiscancershit · 19/02/2019 20:37

Not many employers would agree to such a plan

I wouldn’t. It’s not really any different to just ageeeing to pay each month

CoffeeRunner · 19/02/2019 20:39

I totally agree with PPs. This is standard.

I had the same issue with my previous job, so waited the required 12 months before leaving. Had I left any sooner I would have completely expected the costs to be taken from my final salary.

Curiousmum69 · 19/02/2019 20:42

If paying back the training costs would put your take home at less than minimum wage then they haven't got a leg to stand on.

Lots of companies put these clauses in but actually they are very hard to legally enforce. Esspecially If the training is required to do the job.

Grace212 · 19/02/2019 20:49

I am not a lawyer

but if you didn't go back, then surely they would just go after you for the money you owe them, and you'd be paying that out of current funds?

So why not go to them and say that you would rather pay them back differently, and explain what your preferences are?

Popskipiekin · 19/02/2019 20:51

Have you accepted the new job offer? Explain to new employers your predicament. They may pay it for you if they really want to. My employers did this for a new colleague who broke his training contract to join us. I on the other hand was a numpty and also broke my training contract, didn’t ask my next employer to sub me out, and as a consequence had “negative” pay in my last pay packet due to paying back all the training costs I owed.