Not able to get an apprenticeship because no English GCSE

[Oliversmumsarmy]

Ds who is diagnosed dyslexic and has dysgraphia left school with 1 GCSE in maths.

He is now at college studying a trade. The total course is 5 years.

2 years in college, then a year as an apprentice to qualify. Then another year doing college and apprenticeship combined and then a further year doing just the apprenticeship to qualify in another part of the trade.

Ds because of some work he has done previously was moved into the 2 nd year of the course instead of the first year. So next year he will be working as part of his apprenticeship.

The problem which I have just been told is that if Ds fails the English exam he will not be able to continue with the course. Because he won’t be able to do the apprenticeship.

Ds is doing functional English and is failing even that.
No one expects him to pass.

Ds is very eloquent and intelligent and can talk at length on politics or the workings of a cars engine but give him a pen and paper and he wouldn’t be able to read what he has written, he couldn’t punctuate a sentence and capital letters mean nothing to him.

However on the actual course he is doing he is top of the class. Despite being almost 2 years younger than anyone else.
He loves the lessons and between the assessments and exams his average score is 97.5%.

It seems ridiculous that someone who has shown to be excellent at a subject cannot continue to train for it because he hasn’t got an exam that has nothing to do with the subject.

There is no need for him to pick up a pen and write anything.

Has anyone else come across this problem.

[talktomegently]

Also to add that if dyslexia is a barrier he might be able to get his paper read out to him and a scribe write for him.
There are many adjustments that can be made.

[AlexanderHamilton]

But not until he is 18 flamingnora & employers would be loath to take him on. Without a cscs card you can’t get onto a building site & you/the employer would have to fund the cost of all training whereas they can get funding for apprentices.

Electricians & gas engineers need the relevant Gas Safe NICEI (sp) qualifications. You can learn on the job to a certain extent but a beginner would really need a college course to cover everything you need to know as some stuff wouldn’t arise very often on the job

[AlexanderHamilton]

Talk - I don’t know about the OP’s Ds but my son gets totally tongue tied & flummoxed with a scribe.

[Oliversmumsarmy]

Dd was offered a scribe but she was told you have to say all the punctuation and capital letters and she said she would find it off putting.

I had a word with a private training company this morning who would train him to the required level to fully qualify.

It will cost as it is a company but it is a plan B. They are not bothered about GCSEs.

I was even googling last night training in the US. At a cursory glance it is $7000 per year for a 2 year course. + accommodation and living expenses.
Apart from passing the English test for immigrants wanting to go into education there didn’t seem to be any other requirements.

[Kerning]

The Apprenticeship funding rules state there are exceptions to the minimum English requirements for students with SEN or learning difficulties. See this ESFA guidance, page 25, paragraph E112 onwards:

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/733050/1819_Provider_Rules_v1.0.pdf

Does your son and the Apprenticeship meet the criteria? Suggests entry level 3 may be acceptable.

[Kerning]

Sorry paragraph P137 onwards.

[RandomMess]

I paid for a private assessment to cover dyslexia, dyspraxia etc. For DD once she was 16 so as an "adult" £350 and worth it in terms of being to legally request reasonable adjustments.

[bsc]

How is he doing, and passing, the exams in the course?
If he practises with a scribe, could he become used to it?

[bsc]

There are also reading pens that children with additional learning needs are allowed in the exams now, maybe that would help, as it would mean him processing an aural not visual input?

[Rosevi]

Hi! I haven’t read every post so if it’s been noted before, sorry.

My DSS didn’t get a C in English and was placed on a Level 2 qualification as part of his apprenticeship (one day per week in college - rest of the week at work) with the understanding that he would do his English GCSE at the same time. He loved the work but hated going to college and was completely overwhelmed by doing a GCSE and coursework whilst working 35+ hours per week.

We reached a point where the coursework was causing him to want to leave his apprenticeship even though his employers couldn’t praise him enough for the standard of his work and his attitude etc.

I contacted another FE College and asked for advice and they said that if he had gone straight to work based learning he could have gone straight to Level 3 NVQ without the GCSE. Colleges etc get more funding for an apprentice and to complete an apprenticeship you must have a GCSE English.

We spoke to his boss and DDS now works full time and does a work based qualification.

[sashh]

Back in the old days of O Level some colleges accepted history as equivalent to English O Level because you needed to be able to write essays to pass.

Is there anything now?

It seems such a shame as he obviously can write enough to do his course work.

Could he spend next year just concentrating on his English? Or do you think that would just destroy him?

Could he sit a professional test in literacy? These are actually for people wanting to become teachers and are supposed to prove you are 'working at' the level of GCSE, you can resit an unlimited number of times although you have to pay for the 4th and subsequent sittings.

The reason I'm asking is because a lot of the questions are multiple choice so you may be given a word spelled 4 different ways, you need to pick the correct one, if you pick at random then you have a 25% chance of getting it right.

sta.education.gov.uk/

[NanooCov]

Did he have an EHCP at school? If he's in continuing education shouldn't it be continued?

[Oliversmumsarmy]

This is a practical course. There is no writing. The exams are multiple choice and the assessments are all practical.

Even when put at work he would only pick up a pen/pencil to mark where he needs to cut something.

He had an EHCP when he was in primary but in year 3 the school said they didn’t think that they needed an SEN dept and got rid of the extra teacher who those with SEN were working with.

Anyone who had a child who had an SEN was ignored and we ended up removing our children.

OFSTED rated outstanding school which went to Requires Improvement the next time Ofted came round.

He returned to school for a year but in Senior school there was little help and no one to talk to and we had the added thing of them blaming his attendance.

He had 2 days off on the 2nd and 3rd day of senior school so by the 4th day his attendance they reckoned was 33% (I wanted him to have the 1st day off as he really wasn’t well)

I was called in every week till his attendance was above 95%. Or would have been if he had stayed.

He has been HE ever since.

[Oliversmumsarmy]

kerning

Am I right in reading it that Ds would still need to obtain an E grade or that if he is judged too low then as long as he is still taking lessons in English then he can carry on with the apprenticeship.

[LIZS]

He can be "working towards" while studying but may not achieve the accredited award without it. The issue may well be funding if the college think he will not complete the award.

[Oliversmumsarmy]

The issue may well be funding if the college think he will not complete the award

Do you mean if he doesn’t pass English even if he completes the course he won’t get to qualify.

Or that because he won’t pass English then he wont be able to complete the course.

[Oliversmumsarmy]

I have said it before. Atm he is topping the class which consists of pupils who can be nearly 2 years his senior

Just got the results of the latest exam. Another 97.5%.

I have never known him do anything but struggle in schooling and tests. Most of the time he struggled to get more than 20% in any subject apart from Maths.

English was always the worst. I don’t think he ever got more than 7%.

He has found something that he seems to be able to understand and do and he is interested in that would make a great career only for it to be potentially snatched away because of not getting an exam in a subject that has nothing to do with the career.

[PickAChew]

Has no one ever come across this

I'm doubting it's unusual. DS1 is only year 10 but cannot engage in English. Likely to only work to entry level, even though he is brilluanylt at maths and competent in science and mfl.

[LIZS]

In theory he can complete the course but not get the full qualification. In practice some colleges will not let him progress into the next year, especially if he is over 19.

[RandomMess]

I think you need to explore him being assessed as an adult so that has the recognised SEN statement (the ones recognised by colleges and universities). You can look at the exemptions made under the apprenticeship regulations for adults with learning difficulties that someone has already posted up thread it seems clear to me that those regulations are there for people like your DS.

Then he could progress without his English.

[Oliversmumsarmy]

I have spoken to the college and they were going to get back to me, probably after the holidays now to see what needed to be put in place.

Whilst I can see how he is doing on his course. I have access through the parent portal. The English side of things has never been updated so am not sure how he is getting on.

His current dyslexia assessment lasts him up to being 18/University so I will have to have him assessed at some point as an adult.

I thought we wouldn’t have to worry about this English stuff as I was under the impression as long as he was attending lessons up to being 18 then he could do the course and apprenticeship and after 18 he didn’t need to carry on with the English.

Dds friend has just dropped out of her course because she can’t get Maths. The college put her in the foundation year so she could get Maths before starting the degree course.

She has decided to not waste any more money. She is never going to pass Maths so wouldn’t be able to get into the degree course and the foundation course is boring because she is just going over stuff she knows.

[RandomMess]

It may mean getting him assessed as an adult sooner rather than later as you only need to be 16.

It could be likely that there is more going on than just dyslexia and he then comes out with a diagnosis that will further support him not needing to do English. I'm think about processing ability which may not be due just to dyslexia. My DD has a few areas where she scores so low when it comes to do complex stuff really not obvious until the assessment reviewed every learning area.

I would hope that the Dyslexia Institute would be able to help/ point you on the right direction. Has he ever done their toe to toe programme?

[Oliversmumsarmy]

Dd has problems with processing ability.

He isn’t like her in some respects but exactly like her when it comes to reading.

They both can read a story but if you ask what it was about neither can tell you.

He has an almost photographic memory if he hears something he is interested in.
Hence why his marks are so high.

If he likes a film and watches it a couple of times he knows the whole script. Including accents. He is very good at critical thinking and as I have said before can spot exactly what is wrong with campaigns, election manifestos etc.

I know there is something else going on. He can follow Ikea flat pack instructions but can’t tie his own shoe laces.

He is very visual.

I think like me, if they made a Hollywood movie of GCSE History, Geography Chemistry etc we would pass with flying colours.
Give us a book to read and it all goes out the window.

[NewElthamMum13]

Sorry to come to this so late, but I've spent a lot of time getting to grips with the apprenticeship rules recently. A pass at Level 1 Functional Skills meets the requirements for the Intermediate Apprenticeship, ie the Level 2 qualification. Functional Skills involve significantly less content than GCSEs, so is it possible this FS level 1 will be attainable for him? He can't complete the apprenticeship without the English pass, but I believe he can continue on his apprenticeship while he works towards it.
There is some info about the maths and English requirements here: he-exams.wikia.com/wiki/Apprenticeships

[NewElthamMum13]

I've just read your OP again properly - sorry for not doing that before replying above. Hopefully by now you'll have more support in getting SEN assessments and perhaps exemptions, but if not, this may help.

Your DS is at a college with an integrated apprenticeship programme. The college is structuring this so that apprentices have their maths and English qualifications before they start the apprenticeship placement. However, that's just the way this particular programme does it - it's not the only way of doing an apprenticeship. The Apprenticeship rules themselves don't require this.
What the rules say (you may well know, but just in case...) is that apprentices must have a pass in Level 1 FS maths and English, or GCSE grade 2 / E, before they finish the apprenticeship. There is no requirement in the rules for them to have passed these before starting the apprenticeship. Therefore, your son can just start an apprenticeship and get on with his work in the hope that he'll somehow get the pass in English before the end. If he doesn't - the employer might offer him a job outside the apprenticeship framework anyway, if he is doing well at the job. Have a look at Find An Apprenticeship - specify Intermediate Apprenticeships, and just see what's available. Others have commented that it may be easier to approach employers direct rather than going through an agency. The apprenticeship employer does not have to use a college to deliver the learning element - it can be distance learning, for instance.

Note also that it's not actually compulsory to be in education at 16-18. Although 'Raising the Participation Age' says that you should be in education or training, in fact there are no penalties for either the young person or the employer if you're just employed full-time. I have references to hand for this if anyone would like them.