Not able to get an apprenticeship because no English GCSE

[Oliversmumsarmy]

Ds who is diagnosed dyslexic and has dysgraphia left school with 1 GCSE in maths.

He is now at college studying a trade. The total course is 5 years.

2 years in college, then a year as an apprentice to qualify. Then another year doing college and apprenticeship combined and then a further year doing just the apprenticeship to qualify in another part of the trade.

Ds because of some work he has done previously was moved into the 2 nd year of the course instead of the first year. So next year he will be working as part of his apprenticeship.

The problem which I have just been told is that if Ds fails the English exam he will not be able to continue with the course. Because he won’t be able to do the apprenticeship.

Ds is doing functional English and is failing even that.
No one expects him to pass.

Ds is very eloquent and intelligent and can talk at length on politics or the workings of a cars engine but give him a pen and paper and he wouldn’t be able to read what he has written, he couldn’t punctuate a sentence and capital letters mean nothing to him.

However on the actual course he is doing he is top of the class. Despite being almost 2 years younger than anyone else.
He loves the lessons and between the assessments and exams his average score is 97.5%.

It seems ridiculous that someone who has shown to be excellent at a subject cannot continue to train for it because he hasn’t got an exam that has nothing to do with the subject.

There is no need for him to pick up a pen and write anything.

Has anyone else come across this problem.

I have got in touch with the learning support at his college and they are going to get back to me after talking to his English teacher.

I might be a million miles off, but English Lit has got me through the English requirement (but I'm a bit older, and have good Alevels, and 2 degrees).
If you found a set of books he was interested in, could he sit English lit as a private entry? Can you select books like that? Or is it "these three and nothing else"

It's crazy. There should be a cut off - 3 tries, maybe. If people cant pass after that, is it not flogging a dead horse? Yes, it can shut some doors, but as your family, and my experience show, it is possible to be successful at stuff without a sodding GCSE in Englisy Language!

R U sure he could never get the 4 in English GCSE?
There are (were in 2016, anyway) many functional skills in English courses for NEETs as I recall, so am surprised if no path offered to get to that English GCSE pass or an acceptable equivalent.

I work for a construction company. 20 years ago my brother joined the company with no GCSE’s. He did a traditional apprenticeship and has risen through the ranks to become a contracts engineer.

Today the company would not be allowed to take someone like him on because the colleges/organisations who provide the qualifications won’t enrol them without the requisite GCSE’s.

It’s wrong on every level.

R U sure he could never get the 4 in English GCSE

In his mocks he was getting 4 %
Top mark he got was 7%

Ds didn’t read fluently till he was 12. He only started reading at 10 where he would read the word then look at the next and work out what that word was then read that.

HotInWinter it has to be English Language.

Surely someone must realise that this can’t continue.

WEVe definately been told it can be either Lang or Lit.

If he can talk through it and is articulate, do you think there is any chance he could do better with a reader and a scribe. It is possible to get this as an access arrangement with the right evidence.

I agree the system is broken though.

When I was at primary school there was a boy who was in todays terms we would call him a nerd. Loved science and geeky stuff.

Studied the makings of the rocket that went to the moon.

But when it came to writing he was dreadful.

I think looking back he probably had dysgraphia. I doubt he would have passed any form of English O level.
Never heard of him after primary school until I saw an article in the paper. He is heading up a research team studying some really technical biology in a Scandinavian country.

I wonder how he would have got on now.

I am so sorry, i have no words of advice, just lots of sympathy.

DS actually got accepted at uni ( late starter) without a gcse at the appropriate level for english language.
He did and advanced computing and AI degree and got a first. He was turned down by the RAF and army because he did not have english at C or above.

He did go on to do a gcse and got a B in it, but by that time he was firmly esconsed in a government department job and never went on to join up.

It boils my blood, it really does. I accept there has to be a reasonable level 9f intelligence for certain roles, but no common sense is applied.

I wish you and your son all the luck in the world. Mine is thriving, but he was lucky.

LadyLance the thing is he wouldn’t be able to tell a scribe what the answer was.

When it comes to comprehension. He knows exactly what a story is about but wouldn’t be able to tell you or answer any question on it.

Equally with English Lit character and story breakdown is beyond him.

He enjoyed An Inspector Calls at the theatre but the summary from us of what it was about was along the lines of

An inspector called at a posh house.
Flashed a photo of a woman who was supposed to have killed herself around and blamed each person.

Anything deeper he just didn’t get.
I too would probably describe it in similar terms.

Sorry - fat fingers and afternoon wine to blame for typos 😋

Ds is very bright.
Can talk at length on Brexit and the mistakes in the Remain campaign, the general election and mistakes that both sides made in their election campaign.
How electric cars work.
The price of motor homes.

I think it is that ADHD hyper focus.

He also can watch a film a couple of times and he can memorise the script.

If he doesn’t progress with this trade he will either be a stand up comedian. Or a politician.

Or Both

Could he go self employed with the level of trade he's at? Or find a one man band who would take him on? Or is it not that kind of trade?

He sounds fabulous, and so do you. I hope you find a solution that allows him to flourish.

That’s not good, lots of successful trades people started out without formal exams, worth emailing if only for feedback. My dyslexia taught me to be very resourceful.

This makes me so cross I work in education and see students going through this everyday there is something so wrong with the system my work place say as long as they are working towards the qualification they can be accepted?

my work place say as long as they are working towards the qualification they can be accepted

That is why he is on the course because he is doing English as a separate lesson but next year the time for working towards the English exam will be over and he will need it to get an Apprenticeship.

No English GCSE = No Apprenticeship = No Qualification.

I think he would get a job with a company but not an Apprenticeship and not something that he can work towards getting qualified.

Is it his employer who has said this or the college? I think there used to be an exemption in the apprenticeship funding rules in exceptional circumstances for students with SEN or learning difficulties. I can check with a colleague on Friday whether it still applies if you like? We deliver apprenticeships at my university and my colleague is all too familiar with the funding rules.

College who said it.

@Shamalamalam "I’m not sure if it’s the college putting the restrictions in place, or whether it’s the actual apprenticeship scheme"

Each apprenticeship has a framework developed by employers and endorsed by industry bodies. They are made up of a technical certificate, a vocational qualification, employee rights and English and maths. All frameworks at L2 require English and Maths at L2, the student cannot complete the framework and gain the whole apprenticeship qualification without English and maths. It's a requirement of the industry lead body that the colleges cannot waive.

Does he have a EHCP

He had an EHCP at school in early primary.

But he was then HE (on line school) till he went to college.

He has been doing so well on the course. .

flamingnoravera that is it exactly.

He is doing the level 2 ATM and next year will do the apprenticeship to get his NVQ but without the English GCSE he won't be able to the apprenticeship.

I was hearing a bit about the skills shortage on the radio about how we need to import builders, plumbers, carpenters etc from the EU and abroad.
My thought was will the builders, plumbers and carpenters etc have to do GCSE English and Maths before they can work here.

If not why not.

Why dont trades people from other countries have to abide by the same rules

Tradespeople per se are not required to have completed an apprenticeship and therefore there is no requirement for maths and English. Your son could work and learn his trade without an apprenticeship, it is only one route to becoming skilled.

I'm afraid you lost my sympathy when you used this as a way to have a go at skilled people from other countries.

I was trying to get my mind round the fact if someone from for example France comes over as a qualified carpenter they might be qualified without having the french equivalent of GCSE French and Maths and that is fine but to employ a qualified carpenter who qualified in the UK then that person has to have GCSE Maths and English in order to do the Apprenticeship and without it you can't do anything.

Your son could work and learn his trade without an apprenticeship, it is only one route to becoming skilled

Would that mean you could set up your own company and rewire someones house or plumb in someones gas boiler just by being skilled or do electricians and plumbers have to be qualified.

I'm sorry, I've not been able to read the whole thread.

I needed to add that if he is diagnosed with dyslexia then it falls under SEN. The college can apply for him to have special measures put in place for exams.

He can have a quiet room, rest breaks regularly as they are needed, every 10 mins in some cases. If processing is affected then this is essential as it can be exhausting,.
They will stop the clock and restart when he's back in the room.

Also he will get extra time to complete the exam as an adjustment for his disability.

Not many people seem to know special adjustments can be applied for. They need to be applied for early. Often before the end of the first term (right now).

So if you haven't already asked for SEN adjustment I'd go in with him and speak to the SEN representative.

They have a legal duty to make adjustments for SEN.