Who decides what reasonable adaptations are?

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And do you think these are reasonable?

Providing IT equipment, special desk and chair, and total cost £4000

Excusing employee from one task, which is usually about 20% of the workload for that role. It's a unpopular task and other team members would have to pick up the difference

3 x physio sessions pw in work time.

I'm asking because I'm part of the team and there has been some unrest. I'm fully supportive of the employer doing what they can to accomodate the disability and am very much "there but for the grace of God", but am genuinely unsure how much impact that should be allowed to have on the other staff. I'm sure employer will take advice, this is more for informal opinions.

FWIW colleague has recently joined and didn't disclose these issues (why should she?). It's not a new or worsening disability during the employment iyswim

What bombardier said.

Some of the attitudes on here stink. Employers don’t always put stuff like “20% of your job will involve manual handling” (for example) in the role description and it wouldn’t then come up until they start the role anyway.

Bombardier you are wrong. I value honesty and commitment much above anything else and would never not give a job to someone just because they have a disability. However insuring their comfort and ability to do the job shouldn't be at the detriment of non disabled staff and their comfort and ability to do their job too. If they are honest about it in the interview, their needs can be discussed ahead and preparation, including reviewing how the job can be adapted ahead of that person starting and joining the team.

We had an applicant for a job who suffered with severe visual problems. His knowledge of the industry was above that of any of the other candidates and he was offered the job. It was obvious at the interview that he was blind and didn't have the option to hide it. His needs were discussed then. He worked great with everyone but that's because if there were tasks he couldn't do, he was happy to take on addional ones, and not just the nicer ones. He didn't consider himself having more needs, just different ones. He hated having his skills defined by his disabilities.

Being disabled shouldn't give rights that non disabled person don't gets. When a colleague suffered from an ongoing frozen shoulder and needed intensive physio, she made sure she got appointments outside of work hours. The few occasions this couldn't be accommodated, she worked extra hours. She wasn't suffering from a disability but it doesn't mean she needed the sessions any less.

Being supportive of disabled people doesn't mean supporting them with a sense of entitlement above anyone else. It means helping them to carry out their work like non disabled people do. They might work slower on physical tasks but quicker on mental ones. Building a team to their strength is what makes it productive.

As said before, we can only make assumptions about this particular case from what the OP has written.

Being supportive of disabled people doesn't mean supporting them with a sense of entitlement above anyone else.

Wow.

I actively don’t go to some follow-up that I need to go to because of attitudes like yours Swing.

In 10 years of cancer treatment, follow up and now all the shit that goes along side it, I’ve been given one appointment by the NHS (GP excepted) outwith working hours despite me asking for them. Because they simply don’t exist. The one I did get was at 6pm on a Monday night because a consultant was working overtime to get his list down.

I don’t have a sense of entitlement and neither do any of the other disabled people I know. I have come up against plenty of issues though, so no, I don’t declare disabilities until I am offrrrd the job. That doesn’t make me entitled.

My disabilities make my life shit enough as it is. I expect my employer to adhere to the law (and plenty of times they haven’t), that’s not entitlement, it doesn’t disadvantage anyone else in the team. It’s legal and fair protection against attitudes like yours.

Wow really? So you believe that someone with arthritis should be automatically entitled to be paid for being out of the office 2 hours or more 3 times a week for physio sessions when a person suffering from a shoulder disorder having to take time off or unpaid time for it just because their condition falls under a list of disabilities when the other person doesn't? They are both suffering and delibitated by the pain.

There’s no entitlement to pay for appointments, disability or not.

Plus, it’s not a “list”. A disability is a condition which has a “substantial” and “long-term” effect on the person. There are a few conditions, ie cancer with automatic “status” as disabilities but the law is fairly broad on it.

Exactly.! Long term effect doesn't mean that it has more of an impact on someone's ability to work than someone whose pain might not last for year on year and not classified as a disability.

Not entitled to be paid for appointments yet it seems that's what the person of concern in this thread is asking for hence the question whether it is reasonable.

My point is that if this would not be agreed for anyone referred to physio sessions I don't think it unreasonable that it shouldn't be agreed for a disabled person.

Pregnant women are entitled to pay for their appointments - should we revoke that because non pregnant workers and disabled people aren’t?

Neither disabled nor non disabled people are entitled to paid time off for appointments.

Swing of things, the issue with say a shoulder injury is it will get better and so earning capacity will get back to normal. A disability, by definition, won't.

I'm a disabled person and I have to attend medical appointments on occassion. This is allowed under my companies 'special leave' policy. To ask me to use annual leave or flexi leave would get a flat out refusal from me as why should Iose leave entitlement due to something I cannot help? That would be discrimination. My union agrees and has clear guidance that it should always be 'special leave'.

The OP is effectively saying the employee can't do parts of their job because of their disability so should be paid less or have their hours cut and that's discrimination as the person cannot help their disability. By putting adjustments in place, changing attitudes and being flexible, the person may be able to do more rather than less.

PS I always get paid and legally I should too. I'd not hesitate to take legal and union action if my pay was ever cut as a result of medical appointments.

To ask me to use annual leave or flexi leave would get a flat out refusal from me as why should Iose leave entitlement due to something I cannot help? That would be discrimination.

No, it wouldn’t, provided the rules were applied fairly to everyone. Your employer doesn’t legally have to allow paid leave for any appointments regardless of disability.

You might not be able to help it if your boiler or car broke down or a tree fell on your house - are you suggesting free time off for that?

Annual leave isn’t only for holidays.

I always get paid and legally I should too.

Nope. You’re lucky that you have such a generous employer. But you’re absolutely not legally entitled to that.

I'd not hesitate to take legal and union action if my pay was ever cut as a result of medical appointments.

Which union are you in?

Stealth the fact that an injury is expected (doesn't mean it will) get better doesn't make the appointments required at the time any less important or required. If anything it might be even more important to go regularly to prevent it getting worse and becoming a disability. Yet because they don't fit in the box of disability, they wouldn't automatically be entitled to leave for these appointments and be told to take days off or worse told tough.

As a manager I aim to treat everyone the same based on need rather than the box they fit in. I would expect a disabled person to try to arrange their appointments outside of work or suggest making the time off if they can't unless they could show why this is not possible. In the end, they might not do so because they don't have to but flexibity goes both ways and it's much nicer to operate in a more flexible environment where you are more likely to be able to take holiday when you want them rather then when it suits the boss.

I'm trying to get reasonable adjustments made at the moment - been trying to get an OH referral for 4 months but it just isn't happening.

Have looked at A2W but it says that your employer has to have exhausted reasonable adjustment process before you can go to A2W. What do I do when work won't engage?

Wrt appointments - I am receiving amazing treatment from the NHS but due to the nature of my condition I am under the care of 6 different consultants at 4 different hospitals. At one hospital I am receiving treatment from 5 departments. The main hospital is a 2 hour journey from where I live and work, so 4 hour round trip. For the past 2 years I have taken no annual leave for actual holidays. I've used it all for hospital appointments so I have not had any proper break from work, just a day off here or there to go to hospital. This year I've now used up all leave and so I am having to swap my days off (thankfully I work somewhere that is open 24/7) but this is impacting on my health now because I'm working 5 days a week plus maybe 1 or 2 days hospital appointments meaning I get no rest days. I also take medication which makes me feel very unwell for 2 days after I take it so trying to cope with that as well as working is hard.

My manager is doing all that they can to help me but I need more specialist help now in the form of different equipment which will actually lessen the impact of my condition and may actually decrease my hospital appointments.

I work as hard as everyone else. I don't refuse to do any jobs even though some I find very difficult because I don't want my colleagues to think that I am taking advantage and I also hate drawing attention to my disability.

Some of the attitudes on here have been really upsetting. I guess this is what some of my colleagues think about me too. That's hard to read.

You clearly, unlike me, haven't got any equalities qualifications or experience.

If my non disabled colleague can use their entire annual leave for a holiday to Bali this year, why should she get a month to do that, when I only get 2 weeks because the remaining time was used on hospital appointments? It's discrimination and bloody ignorance.

Equality is NOT about treating everyone the same! It really annoys me that people (non disabled ones funnily enough) say this. You often have to treat people DIFFERENTLY to make them equal.

I have taken legal action successfully due to being denied adjustments, time off for appointments and negative attitudes towards my support workers and myself. So I do know the law, and I do know our rights.

Such disgusting attitudes on here.

I get ATW. I have a wonderful desk and chair which has really helped. Any physio appointments l try to make after work or on my days off. If l HAVE to make them in work time l am supported by my employer as they know l always try to get them outside working hours.

The best bit of ATW is l get 6 hours of support paid for by them. This is so so helpful. Perhaps this would help with the 20% of job your employee can’t do?

Brown paper teddy, l just applied for A2W and got the support worker. I don’t think my employers had exhausted all options when l applied. I love my support worker and so do the rest of my team. When things are tough she helps us all💕

HR professional but not an experienced, award winning equalities professional? I took HR "professionals" like yourself to court and won. You don't win simply for being a 'pain in the arse', you lose for being an ignorant insensitive dismissive HR "professional".

This is a good document that explains disability leave as being a reasonable adjustment and examples of legal action being taken

www.unison.org.uk/content/uploads/2016/09/Disability-leave-factsheet.pdf

Equality is NOT about treating everyone the same! It really annoys me that people (non disabled ones funnily enough) say this. You often have to treat people DIFFERENTLY to make them equal

Totally understand that but doesn't explain why one person with a disable condition should be entitled time off for potentially 10 hours a week or more to go to appointments when a non disabled person but with health issues wouldn't. If a consultant has declared you need physio sessions it's because you need them all the same. Don't you think it would be reverse discrimination to tell someone suffering high pain in a shoulder that they can't time off but someone suffering from severe asthma who happened to need physio for a frozen shoulder should be entitled to it because of their asthma.?

BPT, it must be very difficult to end up with no days to take for a proper holiday because of the need to take time off for medical appointments but to be fair, your situation is highly unusual and actually sounds like incompetence from the NHS if you are seeing that many specialists on-goingly. I would definitely query why that is in addition to getting more support from your employer.

NHS specialist services aren't great for working people or people in education. There isn't much room for flexibility and most appointments will be at the bigger hospitals during the typical working day.

For example if someone is under both orthopedics and cardiology, their clinics are run independently of each other and chances are will be different days. It isn't possible for someone to request all their appointments take place on the same day, you have to go to clinics when they're running.

Well this thread reminds me exactly why I don’t generally declare my disability til I have a job offer in hand. Not everyone on it, of course, but some people.

Swing, there’s a difference between having a short term condition which you see someone about for a short term then it gets better. Disabilities are long term, so there needs to be that provision In law.

You clearly don’t understand the nhs though - consultants are specialists, not jack of all trades. It’s not incompetence to be across several departments and specialties. There’s no point in me seeing my pain team about my hearing loss. Or going hearing loss clinic about the menopause.